A lot of players I've seen recently (especially on Facebook's official group) have lamented the "farmer" role of fire tanks and cited their presence in raids as more added DPS than aggro pulling or dmg absorption. I rolled a fire tank a few months back, having never rolled a fire toon before. I notice on group letterboards after instances I'm 2nd or 3rd in terms of total dmg taken for the group. Has this pretty much always been the case? And does anyone have any helpful forum links for successful fire tank artifacts & augmentations? Much love and thanks in advance.
Fire is a self healing tank, the damage output while in tank role is along the same lines as the other tank powers, terrible. The best artifacts for fire tanks are always going to be Everyman Prototype, Mystic Symbol of the Seven and Manacles of Force. Your Augments are always going to be Dominance. Fire tanks are the only tank powerset that benefit from speccing into Restoration, but Health and Dominance will be your main priority. There are a couple factors that will affect your damage in score: damage taken while shielded and DPS in melee range taking damage (meat shield).
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking or what a tank being a farmer role means. Any power a tank casts in range of an enemy will draw aggro and unless specced for damage a tank won't have good dps. Fire tanks will have higher damage in than other tanks running multiple shields but that's not a problem because they can heal back most of the damage. As for spec Lorax gave good advice.
Don't spec health OP it's useless At this point, you'll probably get 5k-7k more health? Even basic enemies will be hitting you for tens of thousands in seconds Useless! Go full resto/dom
If you are talking about a tank and not about dps, then the difference between 0 SP in Health and 100 SP in Health is about 20,000, the difference between 0 SP in Health and 285 SP in Health is about 55,000. Don't mislead people ...
There have been a lot of fire tanks running around with learneas amulet. Maybe that's what OP meant? The "battle tank builds" are getting pretty popular and fire sure seems right up amulets alley. Also, yes sp into health ... yeah pretty important. Even on dps role because what else are you using extra on/ may be a tetra user
Since Fire Tanks get a buff, that becomes 30-80k more health, which is a decent chunk. Speccing Restoration as a Fire Tank can work-- but since you can't heal dead having a larger base Health tends to help more. There are 3 reasons to spec Dom as a fire Tank: Dom helps your healing (though not as much as Resto does) Dom Augments give a lot more Health than Resto Augments Tank Artifacts generally give more Dom than Restoration. That having been said, in the open world content battle tanking is the way to go. Fire is particularly good at those since they're way less vulnerable to the various shield-penetrating mechanics that get thrown at us these days. Lernea's Amulet is really good there-- you can spec full might since your Health and Dom get stat-boosted and you wind up with multiple channeled abilities that heal you a lot.
Just FYI, I subtracted all my SP out of Health and my total HP went from 319k+ down to 244k+. That's around 75k loss, not 5k-7k.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you guys are maxed out or something. But my fire tank is 276 CR with 229 SPs, so I can't see what 285 SPs looks like in health right now. Focusing on health came up before a long time ago and I was even weaker so the benefit was even less because I had less health to boost with the 10% health you get from 100 SPs in health. So where I'm at right now, 0 SPs in health has me at 99,877 health, 100 SPs has me at 108,723 health and then 207 has me at 118,168 health. When I tried this a long time ago, the benefit was 5k-7k health back then. Now, I'll gain 18k health. This is definitely more health? But if I do the CR relevant Metal Pt. I alert, even ONE basic enemy hits for between 2k-5k with a basic attack. Usually, as the tank in the middle of all the action, we're going to see scrolling thousands on the screen. Am I supposed to believe that where I'm at now I should dump most/all my SPs into health for an 18k boost that will last me maybe 5 extra seconds in combat? Or would it be better to invest into my healing, which is what is actually keeping me up and alive much better than 18k extra health? I'm always going to go for the healing first with a fire tank as a few more thousand health can be wiped away by trash mobs. But again, I'm pretty weak. I don't have a lot of SPs or even try that much with augments or getting to endgame. So I know the boost has to be more when you're maxed out. But I'm sure enemies still wipe away whatever boost you get form SPs at that level too.
I'm not sure what loadout you're using or what type of healers you're running with but Health is THE most important stat for a Fire tank's survivability. That extra HP is what gives you more time between hits to absorb and heal back incoming damage. Now some enemies have scripted attacks that do percentage based damage or one hit knock outs (red skull icon), that might make your HP seem trivial but you should be blocking or otherwise avoiding those type of attacks. You could cut back on speccing into Dominance, you only need that high enough to meet the recommended Dominance for any piece of content which your gear should already put you over: 229 SP 1 = movement 1 = weapon 1 = Hybrid Focus (for the bonus Resto and Dom) 20 = Critical Healing Range 40 = Critical Healing Magnitude 60 = Restoration 100 = Health 5 = Dominance With 1 remaining SP for Iconic or Movement Ability.
If you’re in group content remember the healer in your group can benefit from you having a higher health pool, not added self heals. Anything remotely difficult will also have most of the important heals coming from the healer/s and not from your own healing. In Metal I content, do whatever. But you’ll see increased survivability in end game stuff with more health.
Okay, clarity time. I'mma base these numbers on your current build suggestion, and then run a set based on Lorax's build advice. First off - 276 CR means that you're not gonna see the same numbers as direct stats as Lorax (or my girl Gallica) sees. That's fine, SP works on two levels - raw numeric addition, and the percentile increase. Lorax's build focuses on percentile addition plateaus so those will be applicable to your build too, even if the raw numeric Stats aren't the same yet. Our pertinent stats are Restoration, Dominance, and Health: at 321, full Tank Gear. Tank gear carries high enough Dominance for any content currently in the game at CR relevant to you: even without Augments or any SP whatsoever. That basically means that you'll almost never have to worry about Dominance unless you are running under entry CR or running a DPS gear inclusive build. 0 SP values (No assigned SP whatsoever) : Resto 22053 Dom 24066 Health 200161 229 SP Values, Lugo build (Dom/Resto split) : Resto 25266 Dom 27521 Health 200161 229 SP, Lorax Build (Health/Resto focus first): Resto 24973 Dom 25510 Health 215427 Now - since we've established that you have entry Dom for relevant content at pretty much ANY CR with Gear and Dominance Augments alone, and it's been established for a long time that Dom doesn't affect Aggro, only crowd control and Shields, there's not much of a point to having a bunch more of it unless it's for Shields. You're not running an Ice Tank, and to be frank - 2511 Dominance + 293 Resto, even applying their Shield multiplication values (150% and 112.5%) means you have 329 + 3766, or an aggregate 4096 extra base-level Shield coverage. Even the best-case scenarios (Dustoff or a relative equivalent, or Hard Light Shield) only have a multiplier of 4.42 and 2.47, respectively. Dustoff is a SC; HLS is a common use Shield with a 30 second cooldown, so neither of those are going to be coming into play very often. Additionally, even with Dustoff? The extra protection afforded by your build is maybe 3K damage over the 15,000 extra Health you can have just all the time. HLS is right at 5K less. Since Fire heals Constantly, that extra health is going to be replenished Constantly. So it's effectively 15,000 extra Health that you ALWAYS have access to. At your current CR those numbers shrink for Health, but they also consistently shrink for Dom and Resto at an identical percentage. Two other things to keep in mind are the fact that your CR, therefore your base stats, will only ever increase going forward. Also, so will your SP. There's no such thing as too many SP when you're running a Fire tank, but in this situation? You can have access to more benefit immediately by changing those allocations as demonstrated above. So, while you CAN still get *some* benefit from the Resto/Dom split method, you'll probably see more immediate returns out of having higher base Health - especially since, as a Fire Tank, you will be healing yourself non-stop. Hell, to be frank this discussion is making me rethink some of my own SP allocations, so it's been productive if for that alone.
Well I don't put SPs into dom for shields or aggro (because I know more dom =/= more aggro lol) but because it increases healing for fire tanks. And for me, the extra healing is more useful than the extra health. I don't see how 15k extra health is all that impressive when 15k health is going to maybe last me a few extra seconds in relevant alerts. But I do think this makes sense and I haven't thought about it this way: But again, at my level, that might extra time comes down to seconds maybe. And so far, I don't think it's ever been that dire where a few seconds will determine the fate of the entire team. I'm always either definitely going to die or not and it doesn't seem like extra health would change that, especially on a squishy fire tank. I don't know. Maybe one day I'll give this a try because it does sound good on paper.
On my fire tank I run 100sp in to resto, maybe alittle more into dom for shields, 170 ish into health and 45-50 into might and power. The game is down so I can't look. In regular content raids i can often survive bosses solo, depending on mechanics. Its usually a wipe because of my damage output is next to none. On day one of release I could tank trigon and the eyes in the Legion raid solo while 2 cr under requirment and lvl 80 arts. I run the amulet in dps role. I tried it in tank role and found it not worth it. Keeping the absorbe heat ability, i healed just as much and I could keep the benefits of my tank arts. I also run the iconic nature heal power (pheromone bloom?) for rare occasions. I'm always in the bottom 3 of the scoreboard. My fire tank has far better survivability than my rage tank with better arts, both with 500sp. Fire id able to do more damage in dps role from range also. Fire isn't for the player that wants to pull and just block. Fire's shield only block a percentage of damage. You have to be active in your healing and juggling adds, moving so that every add isn't hitting you at the same time.
They're correct, in end game content yes you are self healing but you will never be the biggest source of healing in the raid or alert. The more hp you have the easier it is for your actual healer to keep you alive.
3 seconds extra is all the healer needs to top you off. Surviving the attack is always more beneficial that healing it away. Your goal is to remain alive at long as possible. Those precious seconds are the difference between wipe and success. If a boss can kill you in 2 hits without the sp , wouldn't you rather be able to survive with 3 or 4 in the high end? Fires goal is is to *stoke the flame* (pun intended ) as long as possible. Id rather be a flame that's hard to complete extinguish than a small fast spreading flame that a cup of water could put out. You could heal some hp and end up in the same position you were in right before the cast regardless. So why noy have a bit of insurance that you will have enough remaining hp to slowly heal up and allow the healers to heal you.
Just throwing in my quick 2 cents: resto is more important then dominance for fire tanks, but both are important. Tank role does nothing with your dominance score; whereas it increases healing received by 50%. Dominance is key for shielding, but if shields are your bread and butter for Fire tanking, you are using the power inefficiently; playing to its weaknesses vs. it's strengths. Maximizing self healing is more important, and therefore resto gets the nod. Now it gets a little tricky, as both resto and dominance affect both shields and healing, with resto leaning heals and dominance leaning shields. My opinion: all resto mods (the small amount of extra health in dom mods I don't think is worth it) . Then I would say if you have enough skill points, take the healing crits, max health, then load up resto and dom equally up 100 each, then go the rest resto. Why equally to 100? because the extra % bonus you get when getting dominance up to 100 is a higher effective value than putting the points into resto above 100. As for relying on the healer, most raids I easily heal myself more than the healer.
