Test Discussion Combat Trinket Pets and Turrets

That's cool, thanks for the clarity, like the idea.

I personally like that idea , hopefully we could see that in the future.

ok

Going off other ppls' results from here and private chats as they've changed since I last looked but the trinket pets have a really long uptime (an almost perpetual uptime when tac-swapping Scepter for them), so while I appreciate that they might be able to do some more controlled AoE damage now, AoE situations don't tend to last long enough for that to even out their performance imo, though that's content-dependent. This isn't a huge ST nerf to them but I personally prefer their ST/AoE performance profiles remain the same, as they will be predominately hitting a single target but with a little bit of a splash capability. The full non-split projectile + non-split beam penetration is nice, I'm just worried there won't be enough situations where it matters relative to the lost boss damage. I'm being a bit nitpicky but my perspective is we're not short on AoE options and the non-split beam on them as they are on live is already pretty good AoE in itself, whereas boss damage is what brings home the bacon and I hate to see any of it be lost.

It would be interesting, however, if some of the trinket pets exhibited the new "more-AoE" behaviour while others retained the og "mostly ST with some splash" behaviour so we had more options... but that's probably overcomplicating the system for now. The way these are doesn't break anything, I just personally prefer their emphasis be on ST since they're best used in boss fights (especially now that the AoE turrets have been made more viable in hallways) and since they're generally hardy enough to survive for their full duration (and "smart" enough to stay at the same range as their summoner).

Edit: And it's also important that we appreciate we need to multiply any reduction in ST damage on these times 8 ppl in a raid times the number of activations they'd get off. While it may seem like a slight reduction when looking at one person's single activation, the difference adds up quickly when considering the impact over everyone's pets combined over the course of a run to be pretty substantial... and that's free, guaranteed, dumbfire boss dmg being lost since it's tied to CR and not player skill/role, so it's newer endgame players that are going to feel that the most.

The additional animation for bats (beam) is great and I'm talking not only about the visual aspect, but also about the practical one, the pets become more noticeable and it becomes more convenient to follow them (are they alive, where they are, their time has run out or not ... ), it would be nice if all future pets (for example, new CM pets ... hmmm ... maybe you can give a hint what kind of pets they are ... ) also had a similar attack animation ...

Artifact 2x is coming yall need to for now let that playstyle go. Salvage that art into something useful. Focus testing on what's actual meant to be looked at. People was trying to turn a Sc and Trinket pass into a source shard buff.

Yeaaa.... no thanks. Card artifacts are just boring, and Lernaea is ewww. I will NOT follow the "meta" if it means playing in a way I don't like/have fun.

Trust me I get that, if anyone does I do. This entire play style currently in the game is far from what I see. But things are what they are, I hate that most single target requires Heat Vision, I hate Whirling Dervish. I find Neo Venom Boost lazy But the thing is in a time where source shard isn't the focus we can't let a chance to fix things be missed focusing on trying to fix something that isn't the current test focus. Right now shard is bad, it was my first 200 art when I came back to the game.. It took less then a week before I salvaged it into another art and accepted it just isn't the move, no way around it and they currently don't have focus on fixing it, I know people have hopes on it but I've learned on dc if you wait for something to be fixed you may be waiting a long time "years".

We surprisingly have more in common than I thought. I appreciate the advice to not wait, but I'm still keeping the artifact and playstyle, out of not wanting the seals that were used to go to waste (when it's already annoying I need to spend LP on them), and really not having another artifact I'd even wanna use. Oof, I see myself in the same situation of a fighting game years ago, having potential but choosing to main something low tier.

Hey Charon,

Thanks again for all the work and consideration you’ve put in to this and also for being communicative, forthright and transparent with us. You’ve indicated that you’ve put a lot of thought in to and have more ideas for pets beyond these changes and even the SM pets. I was wondering if you’ve given any consideration to introducing more pets that provide temporary stat boosts like the Hearthrob or Lexcorp or perform some simple mechanics like the Scary Jack, Heartbreak, Sunken Runes, etc? Don’t get me wrong, getting these pure damage pets normalized and standardized was the right thing to prioritize as it will do the most good for the most people and lays a solid, uniform foundation for many pets to come. But I also think having more pets with additional benefits like those mentioned above (in a tradeoff for less damage of course) can add even more unique ways to custom tailor loadouts and playstyles like artifacts do but presumably without anywhere near the complexity and scope of the artifact system. The vastness of loadout and playstyle customization and variance has always been the premier feather in DCUO’s cap over other similar games (except AM, cough cough) and I think that with at least a somewhat more robust plethora of these kinds of options to consider, it would only further strengthen this forte.

I’m sure your focus in this realm is primarily on the pets in this change as well as SM pets so I wouldn’t expect a detailed and thorough answer nor do I want to derail this thread from the specific topic at hand. But I’m quite curious as to what degree of consideration the stat boost and/or mechanic performing pets have been given for the near future, if any. And if not, I wanted to heavily float the idea your way as I truly believe these kinds of pets can could significantly broaden and deepen the landscape of playstyle and loadout customization option variance like artifacts do but I imagine would be exponentially simpler and easier to implement.

Any thoughts?

After more lengthy and deep tests with Shard, I can say that since pets are more stable, the damage jumps on the test server are less noticeable than on the live server, the minimum damage on the test server is slightly higher than the minimum damage on the live server, the maximum damage, alas, on the test server is lower than on live, on average, the damage to a single target on the test server is slightly lower than on the live server (very insignificantly, the stability of the attack matters (the "problem" is that DCB was initially very well balanced in comparison with other pets)), but this is compensated by a higher AoE damage (and also, since the AoE attack dont split, in the situation of the Boss and minions, we will receive increased damage to a single target), as well as the ability to use any new pet with the same effectiveness.
This is for Shard users, but for the usual "meta" DPS, the stability of pets' attack does not really matter, as a result, the damage of pets to a single target will be weaker by 10%, the increased AoE damage is certainly nice, but here, unlike the variant with Shard, this is doesn't seem like a profitable substitute ...
Yes, yes, I know that 10% pet damage is a drop in the ocean for "meta" DPS ... until we remember that we will have a new SM ... but if we remember that the last rounds of SM were mostly completed by support roles whose own damage is very small, and the damage of pets there had a very significant contribution ... then perhaps 10% will not seem so small ... however, pets from the former SM will inflict increased damage in the SMs themselves, so this is not problem huh? everyone has a pet from the previous SM ...

While you're updating combat pets, the old collectors edition hero/villain trinket pet still does the same extremely low dmg.
It dies very easily, and it cant be up at the same time as robot sidekick, as they despawn each other on summon.

Robot sidekick or any trinket pet, even henchmen outdamage it. It dying so easily would make you have to constantly resummon it. Feels kinda sad your gift for having the collectors edition is a combat pet that you cant use in combat.

You mean the SM pet they earned? You look more bad in every post you make I don’t know how many times it has to be expressed this ain’t a shard dps test.. it’s annoying. Dev keeps telling you this isn’t about source shard testing on top of it your a non meta power set you have accepted maxing out your damage isn’t important now you have a pitch fork up cause people who Earned their SM pet get a dps bonus in SM...

Whether you like it or not, the battle pets are therefore, combat pets, because it affects the damage. They affect the damage of the "meta" DPS, the damage of the "Shard" DPS, the damage of the support role in the SM. Testing is intended to identify any impact of changes on different aspects of the game. I made a comparison with a live and test server, laid out specific numbers, laid out conclusions.
I don't need to accept or change anything, I have all the artifacts for the meta "DPS", for the tac swamp, or for the "Shard" DPS, I don't have to wait for double XP for artifacts, I have pets from the previous SM so I don't have to wait for next SM in order to have the coolest pet, I have all the advantages that you are screaming about. But testing is testing, if the results showed that the damage to a single target for the "meta" DPS decreased, then this is what I wrote, if the stability of attacks has a positive effect on the synergy of the pet and Shard Artefakt, then I wrote about this, if in the attacks of pets on the test the server still has anomalies, then I wrote about it here, if the effectiveness of pets grows with a decrease in the main damage as it happens in the later rounds of SM, then I also write about this here. I could just leave this information to myself and use it to my advantage, but I'm interested in balance. This information is intended for developers (what they will do with it, this is already a question for them, but certainly not for people who do not understand anything about the game and the correct testing (like you)).

That is a complete fabrication and has zero truth. Pet damage is completely insignificant to "last rounds" in any survival mode in 2014 or 2021. Combat pets are merely an additional target for the npc to target instead of a player. There is not a single player doing Round 30 with Ultraman that was concerned that Shadow Bat's damage, merely that it could absorb scatter shot, which is the reason why Grimnorium is used as its a permanent pet.

As for the rest of your post

MOVE ON

Happy Testing

Watch your own videos and your own posts and what you yourself said (unlike you, I remember everything and not selectively like you, what you said or wrote then), and stop talking nonsense (for some it doesn't matter, but for for others, this difference will be the feather that breaks the camel's back, I'm talking about the full picture and not about your successes, which most people don't care about. Calm down, you have your 10% extra percent for SM pets, I have them too ... here is my friend who missed the last SM they are not ... but I am not asking you or me to take them away, I just indicate their presence and their influence. Players have different levels of play, any change affects the overall dynamics of which round to whom will be available. Will it affect the players who are at the very top? no (but how can it affect if there are no changes for them?). Will it affect the players who are less skilled? Yes. Players who earned honestly last time their awards, deserving This is a bonus, but I don't think that players who passed high levels using the lunge exploit deserve any advantage.
Answer my question (answer and do not miss how you do it with all your unprofitable questions), does a person who passed 25 rounds due to the lunge exploit deserve this bonus?

For 1) How does your response reflect in any way what I said about pet damage in Survival Mode? Are you under the impression that players just summon a pet at round 25+ and then hold block and run around the room for 60s until the pet de-summons? The SM pets dealing more damage in SM was simply to appease you and everyone else that had issues with what Charon was actually trying to accomplish with the tier system introduction, it will have completely zero impact on SM besides that mechanics like deathstroke's ion suit and ultimate soldiers shield will be that much easier to break with the crystal turrets.

2) There will always be instances where players new and old are missing something that others have that is effective. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of Precision dps that don't have access to the OMAC trinket, yet do you see them making threads demanding the devs put that on a vendor somewhere because of how good it is for prec players to swap in? or even buff trolls? no you don't. I didn't get any of the Beta or Facebook trinkets that could have impacts in the game today because they were all based on critical % chances yet I am not making threads asking the devs to bring those back. All you see consistently is source shard dps complaining about pet damage when they are trying to justify that 1 single artifact justifies an entire playstyle in the game and that the developers should cater completely to them anytime a change is made.

I am always looking at the bigger picture, you sir are not, or you would realize that we have a upcoming DLC in April which will again significantly raise the maximum CR levels which will impact pet damage again, and the assurances from Charon that the tier system will come, which again will impact pet damage. So if we buff everything presently by your demanded 15%+ when the above changes happen we'll be sitting in game with pets that deal well over a million damage in one summon which x8 will most definitely lead to balance issues within the game.


Happy Testing

Can you answer a direct question at least once? I specially highlighted it so that you do not miss it.

Do you read what you answer? I already recalled that working with English is hard for me (English has a different sentence structure than the languages ​​of my region (Baltic and Slavic)), so maybe you have a wrong idea of ​​what I am writing. Yes, this change is not intended to balance Shards and other artifacts. Therefore, here I only voice the test results (if I'm not mistaken, you conducted your own, so you can make sure that the numbers are as similar as possible (I took 328 CRs, since this is a ubiquitous CR both on a test server and a live server) and their impact on one or another aspect of the game (pets damage in general, the effect of a constant attack (stability) on synergy with such artifacts as Shard, the effect of non-divisible AOE damage on damage to a single target with a boss with minions, the presence of an anomaly in some parsers, increased influence of pet damage with the decline of our own damage (as an example was taken by the CM and a great influence on the success of the support roles there (you know that this is true)). Yes, I also voice my thoughts, the developers can agree with them or not (or do you think that the developers will without your intervention, dance to my tune?) You understand that the damage of pets is connected with everything that I have listed (and with many others), and that if I want to be honest, then I must to voice any influence that I managed to notice, calculate or predict?
I have no special information about the structure of the new SM, except for what was officially announced (5 and 10 bosses are different, the rest can change their place in the bracket (as a result, the value of some mechanics may increase, others will decrease).
I do not require any 15%, my posts are just intended to clarify this or that aspect of the changes (in the post where I mentioned 15%, I also mentioned that you first need to conduct tests with Shard in order to determine the effect of stability (just imagine that the influence would be greater and the Shard would become the new "meta", and I would keep silent about it ...).

In capable of moving on, he won’t let the source shard movement go. Literally trying to force a pet balance pass to affect his artifact.