It's not stealing....it's sharing

Well, I 'need' statements to be accurate when they are made...your statement is incorrect. I went and re-tried this last night and even took a video where you can clearly see me getting credit when I never touch the civilian, but as I can't just post a video here, I need to get it uploaded somewhere to post a link, which is more effort than I'd like to put into it. I'd say go ahead and give it a try yourself, but I'm sure you won't. If you can honestly come in here and say you went, grabbed that mission, killed the baddies and let someone else get the pickup and NOT get credit, your game is obviously playing on different code than almost everyone else's....I'd put in a ticket.

It's not a need for group mentality or group credit. Of course you can do any of this stuff solo, but it is a group game, and quite frankly I'm not going to go patrol the area looking for somewhere that no one else is working the same mission. I grab my mission and head right for the trench. If someone else is already in the same area, we'll get shared credit....if i'm the only one there, I'll do it solo. If you want to decrease the chances of anyone participating in what you are doing....on purpose or accident...I guess running in PVP phase is a good option.

Reinheld

It is stealing and not sharing if you are not in a group. If you are in a group doing open world stuff then you expect to share the rewards but if you are by your self putting in work and some on comes along and gets credit for what was done without doing anything then that is stealing.

Pretty sure you are incorrect.
I've done this with people and as long as you do damage to the guard and they rescue to citizen you both get credit.
Same as with the guards and releasing prisoners.

Guess it wasn't that hard....
For those of you who can't check things for yourselves


Take special note that I did not ever touch one civilian, only killed the soldiers. The dreaded "Blasty McKilemall" stole them all from me, or his villain counterpart who was also working the same area. Whatever am I supposed to do? Woah and dismay!! My favorite part is 'Blasty' didn't even have the mission... and I still got credit.

I'd have posted a 2nd video for the gold chests, but I'm not resetting it just to prove a point.

BTW. I'm not saying anyone can't have their own opinion...if you think this is stealing, fine...that's your opinion, but please be factual with what is going on. Credit is being given, whether you like the behavior or not.

Reinheld

That's not how those work. All missions in Atlantis work by either hitting the cog or damaging the enemy by the cog.

Put it like this, if it didn't work that way. My tank would never get credit, but he does.

Its no different than the 100mission or the cage mission.

Two things, one you have people that still do not understand how the game works. Some of the comments in this thread show this. Second, there is no stealing in open world content. People need to get over themselves.

Some dude sent me a tell once doing those dumb chicken of the sea mission. He kept hitting the cog and I would grab the orb to put in. He thought I was stealing also.

You cant fix stupid.

No, it's a multiplayer game. Subtle but distinct difference, as a group game would be something where making a group is either strongly encouraged or required. A multiplayer game allows you to group but doesn't require it to do every last thing.

The other aspect of this being a multiplayer game that I think eludes some is that you can't treat a multiplayer environment the same as you would a single player game. You can be as focused as you like on whatever mission objective is ahead of you, but your actions can and likely will have an effect on the other players who are working on their own missions. And there's a better than decent chance that the effect you have may not be a positive one if all you do is focus on yourself.

I may do a lot of stuff on my own but I still remain conscious and respectful of other players as I go about my business. I do so in part because I've had my toes stepped on enough that I don't want to do the same to others, but also because it's the polite thing to do.

You are correct in my wording being wrong. 'Multiplayer' is a better more accurate word, however it does insinuate there are 'multiple' players running the same content. If you really want to run stuff solo, it should be your burden to avoid areas where people are at by default...like the trenches immediately outside the spawn area for the 'assist civilians', or going down under the main bridge area for the treasure chests, or going to the back of the cage area where the cages are dense. It's like the St Pats pots of gold...if you want them all to yourself, don't work on them at Metro PD area, or on the route between or at the tour points, because that's where most people knock them out. I doubt anyone is actively looking to follow you around, but if you hang where everyone else does, don't expect someone won't work on the same objectives.

I've got a friend that does just this. We were working on pots of gold and I said I was teleporting to metro PD...he said he always does it by his base....in Abandon Shipyards of all places. I asked why he does them there and he said he likes doing them by himself to avoid the pot 'blasters'. I totally respect that, but I can tell you that I was done 2 minutes earlier than he was because I worked on them where others were participating so it went faster. Do 2 minutes make a big difference? No...not really, but spread across 14 toons or on more involved content, sure.

Just saying, most people are trying to get things done as efficiently as possible, It's not reasonable for anyone to assume someone else should prolong their mission looking around for un-populated areas, just to give you your solitude. Heck Superman put his fortress in the arctic because he wanted to be alone there....if he built it in Downtown Metropolis I'd think he would have expected more visitors and Avon ladies at the door. That doesn't make them rude or impolite...it makes Superman's Fortress placement a poor choice.

Reinheld

Hmm..

As some others have said before me; If I wanted to share I would have joined or formed a group.

I also think it is selfish, rude and disruptive. I put this behavior right along with the blind invites; unnecessary and unwanted.
The reason many players so call *help* other players is a selfish reason; to save themselves the time and effort to go and find their own enemy mobs to defeat. It seem it is too much work and takes too much time for many players to do it themselves. If I am doing an open area mission solo, I usually kite a large group of enemies and get to work. If someone jumps in and *helps* and I do not know the player, then I leave them to it. This is fun villainy in the Atlantis cage area. If players come to wait by the cages to take the objective (which many will do) then I will shield up and leave, and those waiting will actually have to take out those mobs themselves, awwww.


How hard it is to ask.. "Hey, can I help/jump in/join ya?" Or does that take too much time as well? Oh yeah, I guess it does because of blind invites.. silly me, silly old lady.

It is one thing to work with another player to get things done and grab objectives, grouped or not; it is another to blindside someone and take their objectives, which is what I think some players have a problem with.


Now, I understand that proximity defeats do happen; if someone is in an area close to yours that player may unintentionally take out a few of your mobs. That is acceptable and easily remedied; just move further away from the other player(s). Also, if there is an open world enemy that requires a team then yeah, it makes sense for other players to jump in and help out as everyone will get a reward, whether or not they are in a group.


The only remedy I see to this is a Master Loot system that is always in default when playing solo; if you initiate the aggro only you will get the loot, not anyone else no matter how much damage they do, open world bosses excluded.


And the M reference is Multiplayer, which means groups of all sizes, including solo. It is annoying that many people use the *Multiplayer* aspect of MMO's as an excuse to be rude and disruptive in a game. If a game does not support solo players, it would be in the description, as with several first person shooter games.

I just laugh when people get salty about that stuff.

Not sure about it being 'rude and disruptive' but I 100% agree with your opting to leave the area if someone decides to pinch on your work as it's your prerogative to do so. I've done the same if I feel they are taking advantage, although again...as it does help me finish quicker...normally I let it slide. Remember the other person coming in doesn't know you don't appreciate the help....most people do (whether it's needed or not). I guess we can have a special 'I don't want you to be around me' hat...call the style 'Anti-Social Justice Warrior' or something. Then if you are wearing the hat people can steer clear of you. Maybe an Accessory that is a circle of a palms facing outward a-la "talk to the hand" ? We can call it the "oh NO you Di-nt" accessory.

I can't see that they would change the mechanics....it seems as though most times it's not an issue and changing it to agro only or 1st Agro based would mean a healer would get screwed if a tank was working in the same area....and what about swarm or hulk, giant robot or other bounty...Doomsday? Right now most of those kills are ungrouped solos all working on a common goal. Are you saying only the guy who throws the first punch would get credit...or you'd need to be in a group with that person? No thanks. Now you really could 'steal' everything outdoor, running up the trench and getting 1 hit on several mobs and hope for the cleanup crew to kill them off and get no credit for their work.

Reinheld

The fact that you can get credit for various missions if someone else comes in and interacts with the needed object is something I've always thought was a good aspect of the game. Imagine how P/O'd people would be if it wasn't that way! When I see someone doing a mission that I need, usually I help them take out the opponent and let them do the interaction. I figure they did more work that I did, and since I'll get credit anyway, hey, let them 'have it'. And if it should turn out that for some reason I didn't get credit (maybe I didn't do quite enough damage), I just move on to the next one.

To be honest there have been some times when I've moved in and interacted with an object while someone else is fighting. I guess I was impatient, just wanted to get the mission done. But I knew they would get credit, which is the main thing. If I knew they wouldn't get credit, then I wouldn't do that, impatient or no. To me, that would be really, really rude.

This. Tho I like to pick up the encased brine thingies if someone else tries to do so as well since I'm always faster. Just for the lols tho. I also just activated the brine crabs and moved one. Someone will pick them up eventually :3

Man I love if there's multiple people doing Chicken of the Sea mission!
I unlock 6 cogs and they put them away. Both get credit for 1/2 the work

what i'd like to point out (and the reason i brought these open world objectives up in the "other" thread you mentioned to begin with). is that i mentioned these objectives as a counter argument against people who seem to "think" that endgamers and high CRS are ruining their gameplay, that THEY should be able to do it alone by trial and error. as THIS thread you've started shows, this is indeed a dual standard (hypocrisy). "you cant have your cake AND eat it too". that's about all i'll say further about it. do you WANT people helping or not? just "showing up" to take objectives while someone else is working on them but not wanting a person to queue up demonstrates that YOU and many others ONLY want them around when you can use them, not even out of necessity either as i myself DO ask for help from people sometimes for bounties (as these CAN'T really be done solo by most people, and surprise surprise NO-ONE shows up for them.), i'll even thank them afterwards (something the objective "Stealers" don't do). so basically you and others like you ONLY want to call it "sharing" when it benefits y'all, of one's own self interest. i have no problem with having help with "some" of the open world objectives (like the bounties or the more multi-task pots/seasonal stuff), but i do run on further to the 2nd next unoccupied objective if i notice someone who doesn't seem to know where the objectives spawn (as it's likely that like many of them i'll have one player or even swarms of them following me around as they're loath to do.). sorry but i refuse to be used as someone else's blood hound or truffle pigs, let them learn their OWN way around the objective spawn points, as everybody else expressed in the "other" thread and as I'VE already figured out.

That's all fine, and as I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the subject. What I was directly replying to was your statement of fact that the 'help the civilians' mission was ripe for stealing because the guy doing the heavy work (fighting) could have the civilian 'stolen' from them. As shown in the video...that's not the case.

Everything else is your opinion, which you are entitled to. I (as well as several other people in this thread) think the ability to 'share' the load is great...it speeds things up for both parties and it allows toons who might not succeed on their own to get some help (healers and trolls or lowbie noobs for example). The cages is a prime example, once you start getting agro in that area, it's hard to lose it because of the close adds...someone else grabbing the cages means you don't need to lose agro and keep cleaning house.

Again, I fully support your position that you should be able to run without interference/help....just do it in an area that is not the high traffic areas...cages is a bit difficult because there is only one area, but that said, the 'left' side is denser and where most people go to get the job done (I've noticed). Or as others have said, go to PvP phase and you can almost be on your own. If you hang where everyone else is, don't be shocked or offended if someone helps unless you are wearing the "Anti-Social Justice Warrior" hat as I previously suggested.

BTW...end game/high-low CR...all that, has nothing to do with this discussion. The 'low' CR people are buffed high enough to get the job done. Sure there is a noob/vet difference, but it's not CR based...it's knowledge and (as also shown by this thread) even the vets can be lax in knowledge on how things work in game.

Reinheld

I got insulted and accused of stealing in the anniversary event zone. Only one listened and realized he's been a noob, because he didn't realize both progress even without groups...

High CR noobs, lol

that's the thing, i don't hang out in areas where most people buzz around (i quickly realized that coastal areas and a select few empty lots in the central parts of the city where no one goes much would net me more objectives with less people competing), and yet the parasitic players STILL hunt me down and follow me around when they find out i've found a good vein of objective spawns. the worst part is they invite a few handfuls of their "Friends" to buzz and swarm around like flies usually. as i said the point of bringing back up the "optional stat clamp" thread (which you yourself mentioned in relation to this one) was to show evidence contrary to what people say in those types of threads, (as was the point of me bringing up the topic in THAT thread) in this case the phrase "actions speak louder than words" is highly applicable. the players' "actions" in game speak far louder than their words (in the forums), their refusal (or reliant inability) to leave well enough alone those of us who try to accomplish our seasonal/open world missions in a timely and effective manner paired with all the people who refuse to run content standing around doing nothing for one reason or another in everything from the stabilizer event to raids is sufficient proof. it might not be "Stealing" but it is a nuisance that some people are inconsiderate enough not to consider asking first or worse stick around. i have no problem with players who offer help where it's clear its needed but it's also highly clear that most players who do this sort of thing in game aren't in it to "help.".

Well...

I did mention in my suggestion that it would exclude open world bosses.

I agree that the other player will not know if I want help or not; however, it should be common manners to move on if someone else is taking out a mob, knowing that more enemies lie just ahead. Just sayin'.

I understand that players want to get things done as fast as possible; however, the devs have provided open areas with a good amount of mobs that spawn often, so I really fail to see the reason to blindside another player to save time. Games are much better at that these days.

Ah well, I guess I will never understand; I'll take that *Get Off My Lawn* hat now.. thanks!

Ok...I'm not even following you anymore. So you are saying that anytime I come into an area where there is another person who may or may not be working on the same objective as me (starro area is a prime example, there are a few overlapping areas that are not mission exclusive), I should send you a tell asking for permission to work on what i'm working on? Ok...no. You also state that while you are picking up 10 cages, or saving 10 civilians or whatever, some guy follows you, then sends out the word to all his cronies so they can all stand around leeching off you? I think you might have a inflated self opinion maybe. And my only reference to the other thread was that this subject came up in there...which is why I moved it to it's own thread....not sure why you are choosing to reflect back on that. That had nothing to do with open world missions and is 100% a different subject.

And I said up front I was not talking about the scumbag freeloaders in the stabilizer duo or raids or whatever where they clearly want a carry just for showing up.

And I still haven't seen you admit that you were wrong about your 'factual' statement....Not asking for an apology...you don't owe one, but a simple..."hmmm....guess I was wrong there". Since you mentioned it a few times.

Which, BTW was the only point I disagreed with you on.

I think the video clearly showed on this point (which was a factual statement...not opinion) you were wrong, which is all I was saying.

Reinheld