Microtransactions for random rewards

I can't wait for the day that this game is forced to reveal the odds of getting a particular item from a capsule.

The solution is to quit paying into the system. I quit playing over a year ago and aside from a month of checking out the stats revamp haven’t played since. Once they get rid of the time capsules I will renew my sub. So odds are I will not be playing this game again. Too bad I really like the game thus I occasionally check out these forums.

I still don't see how these are still even considered "Gambling" at this point in time. Does it say you have to pay for Time Capsules? No; that's something the player base does. The Time Capsules literally tells you what you can possibly obtain from opening just one of them.

Time Capsules are only a small part of the picture here, If your going to say these are "gambling" then you might as well restructure the entire-game's loot system.

Promethium lockboxes; might wanna remove these then. Because oh looky, there's keys in the marketplace you can buy; or you can pay $15 a month and guess what? Oh it's riddled with RNG all over the place; nothing's guaranteed here either.

Booster Bundles: Consider these dead too, because what are you doing? Oh right you're "Gambling" for auras that you buy. I've seen so many request for people to get the "OG" items again from the Booster Bundles. Why are players not calling Booster Bundles out? Simply because there's no feats attached.

I'll even go one step further: People were crying about the fact that the newest Time Capsule Gear didn't even give you any Syndicate Sense(which was used to help obtain the elite gear.). And the developers adjusted it. What are you guys playing at here? You say time capsules are gambling, yet gambling for the gear is okay as long as it helps you with the OP items...

TL;DR: The matter of fact is, if Time Capsules didn't have any feats alot of the posts about how they are"gambling" boxes would disappear asap. It's kinda sad how Time Capsules are labeled"Gambling" because they are RNG, you pay for them, and they affect progression. Yet if it's something like the Booster Bundles; which doesn't have any feats you'll still pay for the RNG auras without rarely any complaints. And yes the Booster Bundle did have some guaranteed goodies for you, but the main reason people bought them was for the auras or materials. It's no wonder why Daybreak won't step up and set an example by removing these things.


And no. Before you go jumping to conclusions, I have never spent any money on Time Capsules since the day they were first introduced; I've always ran the stabilizer event for fragments. And if there happens to be some sort of Regulation or Banning for Time Capsules; then so be it. Time Capsules have never made or really broke the game for me.

And last but not least; I'm not saying time capsules aren't gambling. The main thing I wanted to point out: There was plenty of other things in DCUO were setup like Time Capsules are now. The main reason why Time Capsules got called out for it is simply because they have feats attached to them.

You basically answered your own question. Loot boxes tied to progression is all the judge needs to here to label it gambling.

Consideration, luck, and value; are the three words that are important in any loot box argument. Consideration is based on the reason your buying it, aka thr big advertisment are the auras/ style materials if we're gonna use tc as an example. Then luck. Tc is not based on my skills, it is based on luck aka rng. Then value. Vary according to people but one person values the aura as worth the 10 bucks to buy a loot box. Even if they lose all tries but collect the common components and simple auras, those mean nothing nor have any value to that person because the new aura is what they want.

That last sentence is important because alot of people try to counter argue those against loot boxes with the argument "but your also getting these things", which if your gonna say that in court the judge is already itching to slam the hammer.

Even if we're to use booster bundles, its gambling no doubt, but its not tied to progression. Reason tc can take a big hit is because its tied to progression, no matter your point of view of skill points mattering because theres evidence of the devs saying they made stats revamp for skill points TO matter. And at that point they either gotta admit sp doesnt matter or tell the judge it is true md tc do relate to progression. Double edge sword

Also at the end of the day, we're dealing with an unregulated system. Different states have different pov on the subject which is why this is a big deal. Anybody can speak on this subject and state their opinion, which is why gambling commisions are finally looking at the loot box system as a whole and having these congressmen meetings. We should be thankful for EA taking a huge hit. We might actually see some positivty in the gaming industry for once

I stopped DCUO because of this infamous practice! I loved this game yet ...

I miss my green lantern

Say goodbye to Pokémon and Magic:The Gathering. Booster packs from Collectible Card Game, or CCGs operate exactly like random loot boxes in MMOs and players of those games disappointed that every booster pack did not contain an ultra-rare (like a Black Lotus) will point to the EA case as precedence. After legislation, class action lawsuits will be sure to follow and many MMOs will be forced to shut down if it does indeed come to that as once a game is no longer profitable, a company is not going to pay for the privilege of running servers and continuing development.

In the end, the players will lose but the anti-gambling champions here can enjoy their pyrrhic victory.

Just kidding.

In all honesty, I doubt a case will be able to be made comparing Time Capsules to the Loot Boxes in EA's Battlefront. EA Loot Boxes granted access to special iconic characters which had a direct impact on game play. I would be willing to be that the metrics would show that stabilizers are mostly bought by adult players of DCUO who have no other symptoms of a gambling addiction.

The slipperiest of slopes...

I’d imagine If you buy enough stabilisers to open 20 time capsules, and are satisfied those 20 times with just getting an array of lower demand emblems, exos and complex materials, maybe you wouldn’t view that as gambling?

What if though you opened your 20 time capsules in the hope you might get something valuable or something you really desire? In my opinion thats what most players are doing. In my opinion that’s gambling.

I think in the not too distant future it will get regulated. Certainly in the UK. I hope it does for the sake of my young son, who I have no doubt will participate in online gaming sometime in the future.

Belgium has decided loot boxes are gambling. As of today. Also see state representative Chris Lee video on YouTube. He is working with other states and parent/ religious groups to draft new regulations.

Nope, I'm not wrong all 3 of those are gambling boxes. "Lockboxes can be opened for free by legendary players"- That's the keyword, legendary.
Do you still have to pay for legendary membership? Yes, you do. Since Lockboxes are still considered a sub benefit around here they still count as paying towards an RNG box.

Booster Bundles offered you replay badges and bots. But that's not to say that Time Capsules didn't offer you at least one good item for free. You got plenty of exobytes, you can get an Emblem, a Collection, or a Gear Box. One of those 3 will always be included.

Now if you wanna go ahead and talk about very poor odds; let's bring up that cosmic material. You said you spent $200 for the cosmic material; so you had to go through 19 other booster bundles before you got a material? Yep, poor odds.

Like Time Capsules; Booster Bundles also gave you stuff you didn't want; and like Time Capsules if you had something you didn't want; you could trade the item or put it on the broker.

Lockboxes also fall into the category of Poor Odds; there's so many cross faction styles you'd like to have; but chances are you can easily wind up with something like Necromancer or even the Demonic set from the Vault.

"Also no feats attached, which means people weren't compelled to spend on them if they didn't want to" Thank you for proving my point. As far as everything else goes: If you spent around $200 and opened over 19 Other Booster Bundles for a Cosmetic Material; that's still Gambling. It's gambling, but it's not attached to the game's overall progression; that's it.

Like I said: Booster Bundles make you gamble for an aura or material; Time Capsules make you gamble for gear, auras, or emblems; The only difference is that Time Capsules have feats attached and Booster Bundles don't.

At the end of the day, you pay real money for all 3; you pay for something RNG; you're still by definition gambling. But because booster bundles don't have any feats; people don't ever bring up the fact that Booster Bundles are gambling.


Like I said; if people want Gambling to go bye-bye, then it's gonna be bye-bye Time Capsules, Bye-bye Booster Bundles; and Bye-bye Lockboxes because your still paying for poorly based RNG based items, whether they have feats or not.

C'mon Jacob, do I even need to explain the flaw in this?

I don't know how often it's been stated in which time capsules differ from the other two, and to be honest I don't even feel like wasting the time and energy to do so again. The masses seem to be in disagreement with your perspective and that's really all matters, on top of DBG knowing exactly what they can and can't sell. If loot boxes take a hit via government law, only the devs will know whats acceptable or not, so really your whole post and this conversation is pointless in regards to legal aspects, which is what the thread you pulled this post from was about.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. You need to go look up the definition of gambling.

By the way, casinos tell you what you could win. Lottery tickets tell you what you might win. All gambling. No one is "forcing" people to participate in those activities. You have just totally missed the entire problem that is going on here.

http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe/

Update: According to Belgian news site RTBF (Google translated), Belgium's Gaming Commission has not actually finalized its decision on whether loot boxes are gambling. The site says the statement that appeared in the original report, stating that the "mixture of money and addiction is a game of chance," is descriptive of the investigation's intent rather than its conclusion.



Welp there goes that bit of hope.

It's not just Belgium. Also Australia and France and united states have released various statements that they see these types of things to be habit forming. Not sure if I agree, but I'm seeing both sides. I am currently watching reactions around the world from various countries and many gaming and news outlets.

If some government doesn't act quickly, TC will never end because the people don't stop to buy to get progressed.

I agree with some of this. I don't think the comparison with what happened last week to Battlefront is a direct one, even though I referenced it (although not by name) in the original post.

Although the furore over Battlefront concerned content that players expect to have available as part of their retail price, I mainly referenced it because it was bringing mainstream media headlines to anger about microtransactions.

However, I have since read a review slamming the lootboxes in that game, the reviewer is unhappy that the loot often does not provide a power up relevant to the character. And while EA have temporarily removed microtransactions, if and when they return, those who partake in the microtransactions to pay to open lootboxes at a faster rate will indeed come under the category of paying money for an indeterminate reward.

Unfortunately your bet will never be put to the test Crimson, no metrics are ever going to be provided to show whether there are problem gamblers (and indeed, how many) buying stabilizers in DCUO. That's one of the characteristics of an unregulated market.

I don't begrudge DBG making a good profit and shareholders getting a decent ROI in any of these companies, and there is something to be said for making hay while the sun shines, in business.

DBG haven't taken the lead in the industry in selling 'chances' to gamers, but they can choose to take a lead in abandoning the practice.

If regulations came into force overnight which forced gaming companies to stop selling chances, I can imagine that some games will close down, and while that would be a shame on one level, the market and the gaming community will be left with games that were profitable based on their upfront or subscription cost (plus ethical microtransactions where you know what you are getting when you make a purchase), and as much as I love DCUO, if it can't make a profit without the gambling, and DBG's owners are not willing to invest in making the game sufficiently attractive to be sustainable, then that will be sad, but that's life.

The CEO of a FTSE 100 UK company I used to work for had a really good saying: companies get the competition they deserve.

Yep back that up for you

https://powerup-gaming.com/2017/11/22/victorian-gambling-authority-loot-boxes-gambling/

Once legislation does pick up on loot gambling..which may or may not be in the near future..*crossing fingers that it does happen sooner rather than later*..I wonder which loop holes will be exploited simply through game ratings, drop notifications currently in place, and also how it would affect the paywall system with progression then.

Sounds like a crap storm is on its way
..cant wait to see these greedy money grubbers running.

Like I said to reiterate, cannot believe the balls on Daybreak to introduce another Time Capsule with all of that with Battlefront currently going on. Seriously if they do not tread lightly they WILL be fined and the game will actually be banned in certain countries.