0 SP... and the dark side of the Forums

Hi guys,

So as we all know... GU73 is here with the Stat Revamp.

And sadly.... it has shown the cleavage in the community and the ugly side sadly of the DCUO players.

On one side there is those who struggle with the new difficulty thanks to GU73.
And sadly..... I fear lots of Casual players will just give up on DCUO with the current spike in difficulty.

It show us that once more.... the Devs overestimated the skill level of the Average DCUO player..... or they just weren't able to test and balance all the missions properly not unlike when they gave us GU47.

On the other side.... we have those who are quick to tell people "get good".
Who are quick to mock and ridicule people who struggle.
Who will mock those with low SP.
There are those who wants DCUO to be "challenging" so that it can weed out the no good Casual players.

It show us how sadly... people who think they are L33T playars...... are quick to try to ridicule other players.
And we saw quite a few examples of those on the Forums these past 4 days.

Sad.... but that is how it is.

And of course..... it brought back the eternal debate;

Do Skill Points matter???

On one side.... there is those who say that SP are VERY important.
And when the Devs mentioned that "Stat will matter" with GU73..... they interpreted that as "SP will matter".
Although they don't really agree on what is low SP and how many SP one should have.
Some think SP should equal CR.
Some think that 250 SP should be enough.
Some who will want nothing less then 300+ SP.

On the other side.... there are those who think.....
SP don't really matter.

So I made this cute little video where I used my Flash character... and reset my SP to 0.
I used SP for my SuperSpeed abilities.
I used SP for my Brawling.
And I used 1 SP for my Focus. Almost did not do it.... but figured.... what the heck.

And for extra fun.... I stuck to using Super Speed in my Loadout... with the exception of Galvanise.

And I played solo... otherwise people would have said I was "carried by other players".

Played various solo missions..... but ended up with 45 minutes of video.
So I focuses my video on the mission with the EVIL Black Lantern Hal Jordan.
That should be enough.

So..... enjoy.

There are also people in the middle. I think the game was too easy in its previous form, especially with players entering content and not really being able to participate if a high CR player was in the instance (generalization). If the game is too difficult for new players, that is an issue, but if it is only too difficult because they haven't learned the mechanics? Isn't that how it is supposed to be? People learn strategies to beat games all the time. Why is this game any different?

I enjoy puzzles. I enjoy struggling a bit with a game until I learn how to beat it. That's part of the fun with buying a game. Does everyone want an I-phone app game where all they have to do is tap a button and it allows the character in the game to jump? It has to be dumbed down to be enjoyable?

There are no middle.
Anakin said so;
"You are either with me.... or you are my enemy." -Anakin Skywalker; Revenge of the Sith



Right now we see mostly the 2 extremes.
But you are correct.... some have tried to be more reasonable.

Will have to test out the lower level mission more to tell if the missions are too difficult.... or if the skill level of the players is the issue.

My 198cr 108 so earth alt will tell you for a fact, skill points don't matter.

Prime we both know it's cus fury needs to actually hit what it aims at for one...and second to do damage quicker with no pulse beam. Sorcery needs to be buffed to nature earth and electricity levels not them nerfed down.

So people with low sp can still beat content is all I'm getting out of this. Seems fine to me.

I am going to test out the content for what I can, to see how it actually works. Gonna run my low levels. Having said that, ran Inner Sanctum, and got punked a number of times, I think like 3 times. Good group with one high CR.

What I want to do, is test the content with a group that are in the appropriate CR range to gain marks. That to me will be what tells if the revamp worked.

Thank you for taking the time to make/post this video. Dispels a lot of myths.

That was a pretty neat test, Magneto First Class.

I think that you did a pretty good demonstration of the fact that now with the revamp:

Players that want to can use Iconic and / or Movement Powers and still be able to beat content.

-- That, while very useful, a very skilled player can still beat content with zero SP. The folks that are screaming that now everyone will need 200 + SP or they will die repeatedly until they quit in frustration are over-reacting, IMHO. As you yourself note, the Revamp is "Stats Matter", not "Skill Points Matter". Of course, most players will try to acquire a reasonable amount of SP, because they do indeed help with stats. But the bulk of our stats still come from armor and weapons, and also mods can add many as well.

-- Contrary to what some have been worrying about, I think that your video demonstrates that the Stats Revamp just might make things better for casuals. After all, what you did for your demonstration is a classic example of what a casual player might do -- you just copied a favorite comic book characters' abilities as closely as possible, and then went on an adventure. Unlike what might have happened in the past, you beat what would normally be a moderately difficult solo without any serious problems.

Thanks for taking the time to do that, it is really great food for thought.

i do miss the ability to cheese with pet (oh come on, ability to kill everything in 2 hits is awesome)... that said, i only took slightly longer to complete all my daily when compare to cheesing method..

so i dont really have any problem with the new difficulty...

Yeah you dont need a ton of SP to be competitive. I have 217 SP and there are players with 100 more than that lol yet i compete just fine. No one ever said SP will matter the most which is what a lot of people believe.

I dont think being "casual" is much of an excuse though. Im an athelete (basketball/track) and a musician and im usually out with friends for a long time yet i can still make some time for the game. Not to mention that im still a student. Of course there are some with tighter schedules than mine but it's not only about how much time you have, its also about how well you use that time.

the dark side of the forums oh.. okay thought you were calling me

I wouldn't ridicule someone for being new, inexperienced, low sp, etc. The people that I am critical of are the ones that act like children about it throwing a temper tantrum without giving any usable feedback. I am not against them making people feel a little more powerful in old content, but ranting in every thread "revamp sucks!" "I can't solo Dox wtf!" etc isn't going to accomplish anything but bans.
I have really enjoyed seeing the new players that are embracing the new challenge and are asking vets for advice/help. Alot of very knowledgeable and helpful players here if you ask. Everyone was learning at some point.

This morning between 3-4:00am saw a group shouting for FOS2 200+sp only.. did it in a group earlier with myself having 67 SP

I have noticed even today that between my 199 cr Nature Villain, 163 Celestial Hero, 142 Celestial Villain and 93 cr Rage Villain that the content all feels the same. If I am leveling a pre 30 toon or on my 199 cr one it all feels the same. That right there tells me that there is not a lot to support the sp angle.

But as mentioned above with the lower tier content. If you are in a group that doesn't know what to do or if you are used to being carried....it's all over.

Case in point, ran dox today with the league. Got a blind invite in (grrr) but I will always help when I can. All but one were overgeared. That one was at cr level as it was to help them. Tried no tunnels.....miserable fail. Did the tunnels....smooth as silk. No more shortcuts, no solos, no fast paced quick runs. That is what dcuo is now.

And that will be the test for the game as for me it makes leveling alts and even attempting to try any lower levels questionable. I have my concerns and such I need to figure out for my sake of understanding, but some people will not take that time and will still want to breeze thru everything fast as possible.

Did like the vid though. Thanks for posting it.

Nice video it really helped me out even though I'm at work now

I ran the same instance tonight on my main. Breezed through it. Even the bosses burned down quickly although i think if i let it (i.e.didnt stepoutof it) jordans energy field thingee would have ko'd me but i think that was always the case no matter your cr.

I'm trying to flash on what the instance was like when it first went live. Its been a year and a half. I remember it being tricky. got easier when i learned the mechanics and easiest when i got overgeared.

going to run it on an alt (Shrillrazor cr 188 sp 144 mental) to see how the experience stacks up against my main (Wilder with 202/322).

the gap between lower tiered/spplayers and higher tiered/high sp players has lessened.

Whats making all this exceptionally frustrating is you cant come here and post something with out a select few just chiming in with the same tired, sad remarks. The forums are supposed to be aplace for info and i feel like i'm on the playground.

Nothing is making much sense to me atm.

For example once upon a time I wanted to see if speccing my primary alt to precision or might based gear would be better. as i played content i experimented by swapping out various pieces of gear to which i got to see an improvement or a decline until i came up with something i felt was "best".

I'm not getting that here. Nothing really seems to matter. Setting up a pi causes the same damage as if i just randomly mashed buttons. nothing seems to clip for me anymore. new powers seems useless (telekinetic pull should be renamed telekinetically throw an ad over my head as far away from other ads to mess up the map). I see no benefit to telekinetic prison. In a PFFT build specced into full might my weapon attacks still seem to do more damage. Powers have been nerfed. Telekinetic Bolt feels like hitting with a pillow. I used to love the solo blowing up planes and tank mission in area 51. Used to take two to three hits of tk bolt to blow them up. Now it doesn't effect them. At all. I'll get outdamaged by someone extremely lower than me across the board yet i'll double out the damageof someone one or two cr levels below me.

I do see some good to the revamp. Controlling does feel oldschool to me and without the power point restriction i can run with my dream troll loadout which is nice but the dps side of mental is FUBAR.

bottom line is if someone can get through a t6 instance on a couple of dozen skill points something is off.

If I for the life of me can remember this video of idk if it was dark reign, orbit, or gods disciple. But it was a vid of them solo healing Prison break, second boss fight, as electric with 60sp and discussing the old topic in the book "does sp matter" "are the players getting bad" "game getting easy" etc etc.

What alot of people forget of those who ask dcuo to be challenging again, is these new "casual" players were reaching endgame with no knowledge of the game at all. CR diff and WM/AMs literally destroyed any credibility of difficulty this game had and sadly molded the new players into a false sense of what dcuo is, when it is not like that.

Now the question do you need ALOT of sp to beat content? No
But does it make life more easier? DEFINITELY

Now alot of people are under the assumption that they need sp to beat the older content, when in fact you really don't. Now you might need roles more importantly then ever, but if you know the mechanics of the raid and your support roles and dpses know how to play their role, then you should have no problem. That is what the big bad meanies of elite players , are ultimately trying to bring back to this game.

yeaa coz u know what? not ALL the communitty asked for this endless paaain that is revamp!
and u know wat? SP still doesnt matter at pvp ... yep
and and u know wat? SP still doesnt matter at pve if u r using PftT combo loudout ... yep yep