CR vs SP? By the numbers. Where is a good number?

In this game if you skip the tutorial you start out at CR 4 and 1 SP, skip to CR 25 and you get 19 SP, and most recently skip to CR 100 you are given 60 SP. Today I ran into a person with CR 195 and 99 SP, which did not seem right. 95 CR above the highest level you can skip to and only 39 SP more. Some people say your CR should at least match your SP, I want to know other peoples opinion. I think this person SP was to low for that level, am I the only one or do other think this is true. Where should your SP be with a 190 CR?

I've seen worse. But right now CR is king and SP doesn't make that much of a difference. After the revamp SP will make more of a difference. And if I was that guy, I would probably be too embarrassed to log in.

Currently on live i believe the magic number is 78sp for DPS (gets you all of the crits). after that the additional 240+skill points will give you less stats than taking 1 soder cola.

you can successfully tank with only 1 skill point.

for heal and troll i believe the magic number is around 100 (all crits +WM)

That being said CR is everything on live right now. So a cr201 DPS with 30sp is better off than a cr 195 DPS with 330sp (assuming same power and equal skill).

So as it currently stands increasing CR takes priority over increasing your SP. When the "stats matter" update on test goes live your skill points will matter more than they currently due. However, the majority of your stats will still come from your gear.

I would/am get/getting as high as possible in both fields. Really though it all depends on the gear. I mean that's the way it should be, and from what I have read in regards to the "stats revamp" is exactly how it will be afterwards otherwise this will become the dumbest MMO ever created. As for CR being "King" I disagree strongly with that concept. My go-to example will now always be this:

I met a 203 guy the other day in a raid. He was blown away by the fact that I was beating him on the stupid scoreboard, and I guess he looked me up on Wavedox just to see where I stood on SP. He then called me out on the fact that I only had 170 SP at that time. The thing was that in order to get to 203 he abandoned gear that had better stats. The OP necklace, ring, Starro face, utility belt, and ring all have better stats. As they should. They're "OP" pieces. With those items you can get to 202, but I don't believe you can hit 203 with them (All I have left to confirm this is the 175 trinket). Anyway, the point is if you could compare them to the 175 pieces you would see the decrease is in almost every single field of stats. So even though he had 324SP and a 2 CR advantage he was throwing away literally -2000+ stats (Minimum, maybe more) on almost every field for that CR advantage. Which means that SP wise would be the equivalent of having like 80-90 SP (Again, minimum. Just a guess but you get the idea).

To sum it up. As it should be your gear should be where the majority of your stats come up. I wouldn't suggest chasing CR entirely but the majority of items (Especially if you missed the Starro stuff) with the best stats are the ones with the highest CR.

I'm sure you're actual IRL skill played a better part as well.

Increasing CR to the upper echelons takes a bit of time, but little effort or skill, yet increasing SP to the upper echelons takes much time, effort and skill.

People with few skill points and a high CR shouldn't be looked down upon if they recognise that the best thing to do with their high CR is go and feat hunt relentlessly.

I first joined DCUO in January 2015. By chance. I'd been playing for a few weeks as a lone ranger and got ninja'd to a league when I was at level 27 or so. By chance, a few weeks later, I asked for help and met a player who mentored me and taught me about the game. When I reached CR 110, which was approaching endgame back then, I had about 50 SP. My mentor told me I must start to farm skill points, and I followed his guidance and received a fair amount of help from him and league mates.

If it hadn't been for encountering this person by chance, I simply wouldn't have known about the importance of skill points and that they are a far more significant measure of a player's worth than CR.

And this is why I say that high CR/low SP players shouldn't be looked down upon, because they probably think they've 'beaten' the game.

"Some people" say a lot of things.

When you raise your character to 100CR... you start with 60SP.
What does that tell you??

Right there it tells you that the CR=SP theory??? does not matter.

Sadly "Some people" are stuck in the past... and forgot to evolve as the game did evolve.

When T3 was the TOP gear.... SP accounted for about 30% of your Stats.
Wayyyyyy back then.... sure CR=SP seemed like a good idea.

But at the very least since T5..... that was no longer true.
By then SP would be 5% of you Stats..... maybe 10% if you did not have the top gear yet??

And pretty much since then... SP.... not really important anymore.

I have a 199 HL toon with only 61sp LOL i did not skip anything with em tho. He was a throw away toon for seasonals. And i built em up somewhat when i was bored. I ran em thru the starro event for more chances at crafting mats and he got gear which got em to 187. And now with AoJ and TCs he got to 199, actually hes on the cusp of hitting 200 Needless to say i wont be playing the toon once the revamp goes live unless i unlock a bunch of sp.

Now if ya look in my sig u can see my main has 315sp. My other 5 are all 200+. And content right now is super easy. Ive actually out dpsed quite a few ppl on that HL toon in the alerts and raids xD Once CR differential goes away all of this will stop, thank god Wonder what will happen to the high cr/low sp players once the revamp goes live?

And have the devs ever said anything about the 60sp ya get when u skip to 100cr? Cause i see above its being used to show sp arent important. So if ya reach 200cr it means u should have 120sp? Id like to see where a dev confirmed this is correct. Or how it was determined to give 60sp with 100cr. Because as usual i see people posting stuff that they assume and dont have confirmation of. Seems to be the norm on the forums these days Imo they came up with the 60 # because its a % of the total amount of sp.

Max sp is around 330 these days. So 60sp is around 20% of the max. Its 18.1% to be exact. While the cr jump was pretty much 50% of the cr max. I dont think the devs looked at stats at all when figuring the #s for this. I could be wrong because its just a guess and like i said we dont have any confirmation as to why those #s were chosen That being said majority of stats will come from gear even after the revamp. But more sp will always increase your stats. And id take a high sp players over a low one pretty much every time.

Newsflash: Not everyone is a game addict like us lol. Its easier to raise cr than sp. Remember that starro event? That was basically there for peoples alts.

The rule the devs set is 1:1 of SP:CR. So if you are 200CR you should have 200SP.

As long as they can play their role I really don't care. SP does not block, dodge, roll, make pick ups, know instance mechanics or fix dumb.

This ^^^ x9000

I just want to... reinforce the message that SP does not and never will equal skill IMO.

I would suggest going for CR=SP just for the small stats and if you have the time go beyond that cause it doesn't hurt BUT having a lot of SP doesn't mean you know all that you're doing. Especially now since you can essentially buy feats. Like I believe was mentioned above, I would much rather have a player who knows when to block, how to roll, when and where to attack and one that just generally knows what they're doing in the game and with their SP.

I recently worked out some numbers in the current system, most of which are DPS-centric except when noted:

• 77 SP will open all damage, healing, or power healing crits
• 112 SP will open all damage, healing, or power healing crits and grant you one Weapon Mastery Combo (primarily needed by support roles)
• 120 SP will open all WM Might/Precision in might-based trees, ignoring Damage Crits in precision-based trees
• 144 SP will open all WM Might/Precision in precision-based trees, ignoring Damage Crits in might-based trees
• 162 SP will open all WM Might/Precision in might-based tress plus all Damage Crits in precision-based trees
• 179 SP will open all WM Might/Precision in precision-based trees plus all Damage Crits in might-based trees
• 264 SP will open all WM Might/Precision in all trees (includes all Damage crits)
• 265 SP will open all WM support role stats (Restoration, Health/Dominance, or Power/Vitalization) in all trees plus grant you one Weapon Mastery Combo

These numbers assume that you will also spend exactly 1 SP under movement to get your supersonic type move, because your chosen weapon is automatically granted to you without having to spend one SP to get it.

Is it possible to succeed with these numbers? Sure. Is it possible to fail miserably when you have 330 SP? Yes... but it's far less likely. End result is that if you are contributing toward mission accomplishment, you're doing alright. You may not be spectacular, but at least you are trying. Experience, however, says that most people with high CR and low SP tend to be a hindrance as the rest of the team gets distracted with having to pick you up more often than not or will end up down a man because you could not be revived or have gear that's so badly broken you might as well not even be there.

If you have low SP, make an effort to get some mods... the white (tactical) ones can help a great deal, as can even something as simple as an alpha or beta mod that will activate your gear's affinity bonuses and help your stats too.

So they would have the more complex feats then, like the ones that require you to Block, dodge, roll or know the instance mechanics or are we just saying you generally don't care about the feats that lead to more SP.

To obtain some of the hardest feats you have to know how to do those things, don't ya.

I guess getting the 1 piece or Death Proof at level is no good example of people knowing how to survive then.

Boy are you all tough.

1. I doubt most people got death proof at level.
2. There's something called carrying.
3. That's a small percentage of "tough" feats.

Not sure if you know this but SP =/= skill. Sure there are a handful of feats that required skill (key word being required). The devs have dumbed down this game significantly and it's super easy to carry noobs. You want proof? Back in 2013 it was hard to get the Epic Odyssey feat and everyone had to know what they were doing and now even at level... not so much.

So that would rule out what 2500 or so players for being carried.

Not sure if that number is correct but those that did obtain those feats or have a good amount of skill points are far outnumbered by those who did not.

And sure carrying is a big deal for like the dox feats or throne feats now, but you can tell by those who don't know how to block if they were carried or not.

Besides skipping to 100 then using money to buy feats will definitely get you above 200 SP, no it will not, but it sure does sound gewd though...

There is no reason for every person in the game at cr 190 and above should have at least 130sp. The only reason someone doesn't is they are lazy. It is too easy to get sp anymore

I agree with most of wbat you said but and yes there is a but. When someone has a lot of skill points it does mean that they work as a team do mechanics help with pick ups and just do what is needed to complete things and feats. But just becuase you have 300 sp doesnt mean you know everything but again it might mean they are willing to work with you thats all and it might also mean they have an understanding of mechanics in the game. Thats all

Low SP as a DPS is much more forgiving than low SP as a support role. Crits,defense, and might/precision only requires like 120+ sp? ( I dont keep track of that crap to know offhand). Support roles have way more things they need to pump SP into.

The only time you are looking at what other people have is when you are struggling. SP is NOT going to be the only relevant factor in determining who is dragging the group down. Some people dont know how to run their toon well, some people might not be modded, some people might not even be trying and wanting to be carried. None of that is dependant on SP.