Episode 15-17 & Their Irresponsible Minimums

So I remember when these episodes came out and there was discussion about the ability to enter at 113. I know the main reason given was to limit gaps and the need to buy every episode to move forward.

At the time it was less of an issue as most running the content were at level so more often than not if you were running below the recommended level your groupmates were at least close to recommended if not above. If you pugged, as I do, you had the occasional unwinnable group but for the most part there was always a fighting chance.

Now that I'm going over this content with alts its painfully obvious how shortsighted it was to leave the minimum so low. Because the content is outside relevancy and the duos especially don't offer any rare styles, it is rare to see anyone over 130ish. I'll see the occasional storm poster chaser in the Flash museum but that's about it.

However I see 113-120 players all the time and at 130 CR I'm just at recommended level and there's no way I can carry a 113 player. It doesn't matter the powerset or your skill level it's an exercise in masochism to even try. So I repeatedly feel like a jerk, give a quick apology and exit. Desecrated is even worse as it's often more than 113 player. This is slightly offset by some chasing the gear styles but that's at best 2-3 times out of 100.

Something really ought to be done. Ideally raise the minimum to 120-125 even though that means you have to have HoP2 to progress.

We're at Amazon Fury Part 3 and people are still complaining about this? Episode 15-17 have been out for too long now; people will be upset with this change.

I'm actually able to beat content like Deep desires at 130 on test, so I'd imagine once CR differential goes out the door you'll have a much better experience.

I stopped complaining about it because I had passed it. Try running it again at level and keep in mind completing a duo in 40+ minutes is not reasonable. Put up a video of you beating Desecrated or Flash museum in a realistic time with only 116 or lower partners and I will totally change my mind.

When statsmatter comes out, this problem will be no more.

You're right about it being way off kilter and having needed adjustment for months. I ran 3 characters through it, and that was it. I have 13 characters that i'm not bothering with pushing past the ridiculous T7-mid Tier 8 climb. Got one tank, healer and troller through it, and it was brutal.

Had we more experienced people designing the content within the CR differential system, they maybe would have picked up on the terrible balancing issues and would have actually broke from the routine of having EVERY SINGLE ENEMY scaled to one static CR, but instead could have varied it, so only particular mobs in the group would be at the higher CR range, while the more fodder types would be at lesser CR, with the expectation that players scramble to wipe out the weaker adds first, then target the bigger threat last, when they have no backup. IE: This would be reserved for the tanky enemies in the group, like wags. Your drone henchmen enemies would be 'entry level' thugs that you'd have an acceptable curve to overcome them, while both players then concentrate on the tougher mob.

I'm also still fairly disappointed in the enemy placement in the Harley & Friends T8 duos and in the T7 First Piece duo. There are far too enemies littered around the map, too close to each other. A simple understanding of the wild, AOE-centric nature of the required AMs should already hint to an experienced player that A LOT of enemies are going to be struck with stray attacks, and aggro is going to get crazy, fast. The worst culprit of all of this is the Wayne Manor gala duo, where you're forced into a cutscene that places you square in the middle of the room, with adds on all sides becoming active as soon as the cutscene is over. This results in an obscene amount of cheap player deaths and is a fairly big turn off for players trying to make the most out of the mark relevancy system. It was handled poorly.

Design sense apparently returned to normal with the AFIII duo, so I'm hoping the balancing sticks, while the stats revamp changes also finally address the mentioned issues of placement/clustering. With CR differential being removed, i'm hoping it also means a better base balance for 'time to kill/time to be killed' across the board (or most of it).

Also need to point out the issues with Jacob's abilities in that T7 duo as well. I mentioned this to one of the devs already, but in case it's forgotten, the ability combination he has to lock a player down from taking any actions, while also dropping the purple fire field that slows movements and hits hard as hell, on top of the floating eyeballs that ground and damage players means players are hanged out to dry more times than not (at level). They have little hope of traversing the large distance to get to the magic crystals to undo the suppression effect. (Provided players are using the sentinels - as they should - as support against Jacob's direct attacks)

In your OP you still said you had 120 players and you still failed to beat the duo? So yeah changing the entry CR won't matter until CR differential goes away.
Multiple people requested this change for months, it didn't happen then it won't happen now.

Requesting the entry cr to change for episode 15 and 17 can be expressed like this:

Lol yes I agree. I've been seeing more and more people on chat requesting "a beast dps" or flat out "Need carry" for Wayne Manor duo. And thank you for mentioning that T7 duo against Jacob who has all those annoying mechanics. I ran that with an alt who was 2 cr over the recommended cr but got paired with a bare minimum cr player, it was a nightmare. It's not enough the person wasn't even in group chat, so talking to the person was a no go, so I texted the said person and they still ignored my plan on possibly beating Jacob. It a nutshell it was wipe central

That's not what I said.:

Reading is hard I know...

That one is bad no question, but my personal favorite for cheesy design death is First Piece after the Hawkman fight when adds come up while you are picking loot. You either have the option of potentially having loot selection default if you opt to fight or dying, great choice...

the 113+ duos are ridiculous. they're unplayable at cr. i dont know about AF3, but every time i queue up i pray for someone to carry my 139 alt in a 138 duo. i dont even bother with the raids or 4-man stuff. basically i need the gear in the duo to complete the duo. whose idea was this? cross your fingers for stats matter changes but history does not bode well for this design team

What did I not read? You said "I see 113-120's all the time" Ergo you ran with 120's did you not? Exactly what I was getting at, CR Differential is playing a vital role in some of these people not completing the mission.

I'm trying to say, stats-matter will fix a lot of issues your having on live right now.

Walking out on 113's and Using LFG is hard I know....

They simply were not designed to be run at 113.

Initially the entry point was to be a higher CR but when all the complaints came in they simply reduced the entry level without making any difficulty changes to the content.

So an additional +10 or so for CR differential on entry was pretty brutal but look at the final CR for getting marks, at the other end of the scale you'll utterly destroy them.

I get that's what you inferred and your point so I'll leave it at that.

My point in the OP stands which is that you should be able to queue any alert or duo (with the exception of elite) and have a chance of completion at the minimum level of entry. That is not the case for any of these episodes (BTW I forgot the wonder that is trying to run BSP with mostly 113s). I've run at completed all other duos and alerts with my brother and other leaguemates. Some require a lot of communication to get through at the minimum but are at least potentially finish able.

The exception of elite alerts and raids in general makes sense given their nature, but there's no way a 113 should be able to queue any of these instances. If they are north of 120 it's at least worth the effort but below that if I'm not north of 135-140 it's an exercise in futility.

Revamp: will change it i am on test already tested it some of that content at cr113 which is the entry and have had no issues besides the ones players already reported with the revamp.

DCUO's required/suggested CR labeling has been off since Prime. It's labelled 70? correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the day that's pretty much impossible for a group of 70s. People have said their voice about the reasoning behind entry level cr but nothing has been resolved couple of DLC/episodes later.

100 CR boost probably made this worse... Thank God the majority of my alts are 150+ and I have every UM feat.

Yes WE are at AF3 but not everyone is and that actually includes me since I have been playing an alt that sort of got lost in the shuffle for a while and GUESS what episodes I am currently running through? Can I share some of what I have been subjected to?

Let's start with the new class of "Oh look I got this really cool gift from DCUO and now I am at CR 100 with a whole 60 SP" OMG some of these people have no business being off of Brainiac's ship let alone inside the Zamarron Duo. I actually had one the other day asking for help because he was trapped under the map. I explained how all he had to do was pull up his map and use the rally point warp to get above ground and stay in zone...next question? HOW DO I PULL UP THE MAP?

Basically they are totally useless. And wait. eventually as they get carried along THEY will wind up in END content with YOU.

I have a pretty basic rule for myself.. I will NOT enter a duo, alert or raid until i hit the recommended minimum... So imagine my delight when I que into a Zamarron Duo and my "team mate" is Cr 113 and then before we even get inside the caves switches from DPS to Healer and drops to CR 112. I turned right around and walked out.

The low minimum was never right and just because its not BRAND new doesn't mean it isn't still a huge mess and a mistake.

Oh and Please I have been on test and KNOW what is available there. You create a brand new character and hit the Watch tower and in 10 minutes you can have that same character at CR 180+ with at least 135 SP and a full set of VII or even VIII mods now. Yes you still need to know how to play the game to be successful but there is no where near the ordeal to obtain good gear and high SP as there is on LIVE. Over there they want players able to survive content so they can LOOK for problems Not die constantly


To the OP.. hate to dash your hopes but the fact that it NEVER got fixed when it was new pretty much means it will NEVER get fixed and we all just get to deal with it.

actually, no. 70 min req for prime was pretty much on-point back then. i've finished prime when no one was even 80+ atm. and i kn many ppl finish it on the first week, or even the first day, with only t3 gears + few amazon gears from gates. what makes many ppl failed at prime at that time is because they ignore the mechanics and don't block/roll away when its needed. even full t4 88 cr group often failed, but its not because of the cr req. while in today's case, a min cr entering UM/DC will be destroyed in 1 shot, even by the adds, even if u are a buffed tank blocking.

this is all due to the transition period between the full dlc era and monthly episode era. they want ppl to keep up with the new episode's contents, and having to grind in HoP2 content to reach the old req episode cr will take a lot of time, so they make adjustment. cr differential is to blame here (apart from lowering the min cr). and the stats revamp SHOULD fix this. but until then its okay to stay this way since it doesn't really matter anyway. i mean so what if new players need a carry in UM/DC/flash duo? its not like they did fos, prime, or paradox without also being carried right? xD

that's noble but by the time you hit the recommended minimum you don't need the gear. maybe half of it, then what's the point?

Wouldn't be more ideal to lower the NPC's to something people can manage, like CR116?