PvP and why it keeps failing

Not 100% familiar with the imbalances in countering, powers etc, but I would also like a definite return and implementation of:

• Role Gear
• PvE gear disabled in PvP phase, players automatically clamped to minimum PvP stats.
• RPS system
• Open World events and challenges

Not really an atomic tank fighting two SMART dps is a goner. unlike Fire, atomic tank rely on keeping there aura up and combo'n to keep their healing going if that tank is fighting 2 DPS and one is blocking that combo is getting interrupted that aura is going to disappear and your basically a easy punching bag. atomic tank can be useful in 1v1 (they can still get interrupted in 1v1 and lose if the DPS knows what they are doing) but anything above 1v1 for exampe 2v2 4v4 5v5 8v8 being an atomic tank is pretty worthless because your just going to get interrupted over and over you might as well DPS.

Not much talk on actual DPS powers which Majority of the community use.

- Munitions is OP and pump action shotgun needs a nerf
- Healing in DPS form needs a nerf
- Light hits like a truck
- Rage hits like a truck

martial arts lunge is broken as already stated

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

My own opinions have formed through the years of what direction PvP should go. Many years ago, I stated that removing role gear was a mistake. In my opinion, role gear actually encouraged teamwork and strategy. I always used this as an advantage to form some new strategies against opposing teams and leave people guessing what I am going to do next. I longed for the return of this system for years but it never happened after I finally decided to leave for good. I really have no motivation to ever come back because of the sorry state of the PvP system in this game and that I am relocating for a job opportunity that I could not turn down. I complained about these things for years. It actually rubbed a lot of players the wrong way. It made a lot of people dislike me for that and other dumb stuff I did. To me, none of that matters anymore because I do not play anymore.

Love me or hate me, the community knew the passion I had this game at times and I took this game extremely serious. This game actually helped me get through times of really bad depression and cope with the severe anxiety disorder I have. This game kept me on my heels because it was so fast pace for so long. Being able to beat up people and play as a super hero was really thrilling to me. It just simply made me happy. Now the game feels slow and clunky with the introduction of WM and AMs. If the game had been like this, when I was at the peek of my illness, I would not have even given this game a second look. It's just plain awful and depressing.

The PvE in the game is extremely stale and the PvP seems abandoned and gutted. DCUO had so much potential but we all know what has happened in the last few years. The developers do not have a clear direction where PvP should be in this game and they won't ever have a clear direction. None of the developers really could really PvP in this game. (Did you see Spytle play on stream? Or Mepps try to play? It made me cringe) To add to it, the community is not very supportive of each other and it is rather toxic. The game has gotten very personal for a lot of people and even me. It's no joke. The drama was really bad. I do admit, I brought it on myself at times. However, I believe some of these players are children looking for attention or someone that needs an outlet. It's whatever. These are the same people that bicker on the forums, troll, and influence the decisions of the developers to make bad changes to the game.

These individuals had more influence than he or she should of had. I am not directly pointing at anyone specific but these players who know they are. They influenced the developers to nerf down the DoT powers and pet powers to useless states. Now we have people that just abuse shotgun or the GH combo in PvP or someone randomly broken poo like MA lunge. What is the fun in this? Why didn't the developers poll the community to see what changes needed to happen instead of listening to 4-5 players? Polls do work. I do not ever see them doing this so I will say this game is good as done. As I move on from this game, I encourage everyone to keep his or her head up. Try to be less toxic towards each other for the sake of each other. This game is not really attracting new PvPers or players that stick around. It's definitely on the decline.






-Silver

Had a thought...

One aspect of year one pvp that has been mentioned is tap or insta block.
Some have said it was 'better' when block didn't have the delay it currently has, when you release the block button. Others have said it was too powerful.

Thing is, for the period of time we had tap block, we also had tap block-breakers, balancing things out somewhat.
Of course now tap block-breakers have been removed, tap block would be a different beast than we remember.

Of course they could give each weapon it's tap blockbreak back, not sure if that's a good idea, or even possible.

Sorry for the necro.

Tap block breakers were actually slower than holds (hence why holds BBs were massively favoured by anyone who could catch delayed blocks on reaction).

It really didn't do anything to balance out tap block at all.

Edit: Also forgot to mention tap block breaks meant you couldn't reset the amount of blocked taps either, making block even more powerful.

Didn't read the whole thread, but the main reason this player quit pvp ing was because of the roles rps being removed. As much as I hated seeing a troll hunt my healer down restlessly, it made the fighting so much more complex.

I agree.

Easy, just cherry pick your feedback as the prize winning tournament player and discard all others because the overall community feedback is not good for PVP.

The explanation you offer is that others who provide feedback are not experienced or knowledgeable and you are all knowing along with others like yourself, because your experienced fellows know how to exploit Overpowered abilities; they have spend 100s of respec tokens on changing to the most broken PVP powers and they in their over inflated self-entitlement wish for reform and to make it better to their liking.

The entire OnePunchTeam is comprised of players with broken power sets and nothing more. You have demolished nearly everyone with catwoman, your favorite or overpowered, I guess most people know. I am not discrediting your skill, you are a top player but not necessarily the fittest to provide feedback on PVP.

I donno how long you have been playing, but I started in november 2011 and PVP was so much fun back then with RPS driven game play and almost everyone PVPed then, in between DLCs, PVP was king and even otherwise. I remember a time when all maps were active and queues were super quick , perhaps, in part because people needed the feats and truly enjoyed the PVP aspect, a time before counter immunity was introduced and all the way till GU 36 when the core play style of the game was overhauled and then, it just went crumbling down from that point. Introduction of WM and subsequent power and weapon passes and removal of RPS and the list is endless. Somewhere along the line, I stopped enjoying it. It was not fun.

The current PVP is as broken as ever, counter immunity should not have been a part of the current game play and ought to have been removed with GU 50 but the same did not happen because of ignorant feedback from the likes of you, because counter immunity may work fine in 1s and 2s but fails in 4s, 5s and 8s. There is so much animation and effects in large groups, you can't see things clearly half the time and someone in the cluster**** gets immunity for nothing. Your preferred format has always been 1's and 2s, rarely did anyone see you ever in 4s or any other format. Also, you have not played arenas much and have mainly focused on legends.

In short, spreading personal propaganda is not necessarily feedback.

The correct terminology would be "overpowered power sets" not "broken power sets". The only power set in our group that could be seen even remotely as "broken" would be Nature Bug because the uppercut still hits for non-reduced damage but Nature Bug's actual healing works completely as intended. All other power sets in our team makeup work as intended.

And for the record we, OPT, have reported each and every thing that we have found to be "over powered" (from Shotgun to Hard Light's single target rotation) or "broken" (Atomic and Earth Tank's mitigation for example) in hopes that one day it will be adjusted or fixed.

If the developers were to look at a single factor of winning to receive feedback, your feedback will very likely fall alongside the average PVP players simply because you don't have much wins to your credit, you just think you have, while the truth is that a largely PVE player like myself will topple your wins but at least double over the last 6 years of active gameplay much unlike your seasonal and limited playtime.

However, it they took into account various factors that someone else suggested, perhaps, most respecs used to change to OP powers daily, you might get to provide feedback and all.

This is simple..One SP don't matter in the game.. so why should people play PVP? Two, if I'm a newbie to PVP, I am thrown into a match with all 100 fully maxed out and have my butt handed to me.. If I'm not getting anything for this.. Why should I go through that pain..

And lastly... If I wanted to play a fighting game against other people, I would have bought Street Fighter 5.. Instead I play a MMO.

I apologize for using an incorrect expression. I used the correct one before but somehow ended up calling it broken. I meant overpowered abilities. I said broken because there are always new exploits and in some cases it may be broken as well. I experienced some celestial guy exploit some shield clip to become immune to interrupts, what do I say to that?

Just pick an Overpowered ability like fire, munitions, hl, atomic, sorcery, nature, etc. and you will be good to go against like skilled players with ease, the gear does not matter as much as the ability itself, that's what is broken about the current PVP game play. The match making algorithm will place you with players at different levels and at the end of the day, you will even out your losses with more or less the same number of wins, if you can pick on the mechanics.

SP is also irrelevant, look at any of the PVP master posting here and for 90% of them, I bet it's not over 150 SP. Roguester's entire league except him and his old times PVP buddies which quit long time ago, did not cumulatively have 150 SP at one time. So, none of that matters.


The mechanics are made a bit complicated with counter immunity, the engagement in the early days was much simpler which is the basic premise of most popular combat games. That said, changes to PVP came to meet some demands from the community, in the second year, 2s were an extremely popular format, but the common problem in arenas was that if one party got knocked out, the other partner would have a very limited chance of survival because the opposing players will spam attacks and counters and get the guy down in no time, people complained, that's not skill and so, Game 13 introduced counter immunity whereby a player will be able to survive by skillful display of tact and ability to counter the spammers and not get gutted without recourse. This system worked fine but not without its own hitches and drawbacks. What was a boon in 1s and 2s, was sort of messy at best in larger formats but it was manageable till GU 36, the entire pace of combat was messed up which got out of control with the introduction of Weapon Mastery and subsequent changes in the attempt to restore PVP to the old glory days, new mess and imbalances were created. Counter immunity not only affects PVP but PVE as well and we certainly don't want it in PVE e.g. If I am a troll whose constantly spamming weapon for power regeneration, I end up giving the bosses immunity against some boss attack which is counterable, and make things difficult for the group.

I'm sorry but this whole response reeks of pure ignorance.

First of all you totally disregard any and all examples I have provided where feedback that was based on a limited knowledge base changed the game for the worse. You ignore several of the most successful competitive titles utilising their top level players to aid in feedback. This isn't something that I've magically concocted in an attempt to "spread my propaganda".

Secondly, you're bringing in a purely subjective and biased viewpoint on my league and letting it taint your opinion. You're claiming we use nothing but "broken" powersets, yet you ignore the fact that I've scrimmed competitively all year using not only HL and munitions, but Earth (I made PS teams ask for Earth to be banned from a tournament despite it not even being overpowered), Ice, Fire not to mention back on test in December when I used Gadgets, Nature, Quantum. You're also ignoring the fact that Talve is the most knowledgeable healer in the game as well as also being possibly the most skilled with pretty much every healing powerset bar celest. The funniest thing is that my league isn't even close to the "only" people I'd have in mind for this feedback, but you once again let your personal opinion jade your statement.

Thirdly, you're falsely assuming I only play legends simply because that's what I'm most known for. I'm most known for that because Legends has always been the preferred competitive mode for tournaments in this game, ever since the first SoE Live tournament. Despite this, I have won every group arena tournament I have ever participated in. But once again, you ignore this or simply don't know and are labelling me despite not knowing anything about me.

Fourthly, claiming I only use catwoman to win? I've won 2 legends tournaments with superman, I've won a legends tournament using dual pistols. Again...your whole post reeks of pure bias and slander based far away from the truth.

It's fine if you don't like me, I don't really care at all. But I do care about the health of the game and how much effort I've put into trying to help the devs despite the way I've been treated in the past is all the proof anyone who isn't biased should need to see that. You can even look at past feedback I've given to see that I have no bias in my opinions (I've called for nerfs on catwoman for a long long long time, I've called for nerfs to HL since before the last major PvP update, I've called for all DPS powersets so have some viable form of single target damage due to how splitting works, I've called for RPS to be re-introduced etc.)

If all you're going to do is post things like this, then I'm afraid you're simply part of the problem.

Edit:

Why even bother anymore?

It's been years now that the state of PvP hasn't really improved and honestly it's because the devs have decided to listen to people that don't really know anything about PvP or people that blindly follow one person. I won't name anyone but that hasn't helped this game in the slightest.

So why not for a change, the devs give the most experienced and better players of the game a chance to try and turn PvP around and see how that goes? Otherwise we're just gonna be stuck in this state.
Yes when I say experienced or better players I mean us as in "OPT", "Hope Brothers", "WeBoutToRunTrain" and certain other individuals from different leagues that we know are knowledgeable enough to make good decisions on the state of PvP in this game.

Just for once try and think of the bigger picture here. We have won every single tournament that we have participated in since the beginning of this game. That could be Legends or Arenas. We have never come 2nd, we have won every single FNL, BvS tournament or player based tournaments. The reason for that is simply that not only are we more skilled but we know more about the game than others.

Everyone has their issues with us whether you might be thinking that we use "broken powersets" which we do not or you simply don't like us because you have lost to us and that hurt your pride but the truth is that we understand how PvP works and why something is more overpowered, broken or not working as intended than others do.

So instead of this whole arguing back and forth that we've had for years now while nothing gets improved, let everyone rally together to try and make things better.

Yes of course we will listen to what everyone suggests and yes we will take into consideration all the comments and everything but in the end we know how to make decisions that not only will they balance PvP in this game but they will also make it more desirable for people to play. We have proven time and time again that our only intentions are to make the game completely balanced so that every powerset, weapon and legends character are viable to use. Yes at the moment Nature bug, HL and Munitions are the best powersets in the game but we want to make it so all other powersets can be as good as them as well. If you have any doubt about us trying to make the game better then just think about the past how Clutch wrote his Legends balancing document which was around 5000 words and Talve wrote a 3000 word Nature balancing document which was ignored and that's why nature is how it is today...because there are individuals out there that honestly are not knowledgeable enough to make decisions for the better good of the game.

The thing that so many people fail to understand is that you don't utilise the knowledge of experienced players to better the game for just the experienced players, you use experienced players to get the most knowledgeable and quality feedback which results in the highest quality changes.

I can give a quick example, let's imagine two PvPers: Player 1 and Player 2

Player 1 is a regular PvPer, but one who does not understand PvP in depth nor is he interested in testing/investigating specifics. He plays with his friends and enjoys being competitive, but is purely practical and has little theoretical knowledge.

Player 2 is also a regular PvPer, but who tests, investigates and practices in equal measure. Player 2 doesn't simply know what is overpowered, but also understands why it is overpowered.

Now let's ask both of these players a simple question, name the most overpowered healer powerset.

Their answers should of course be the same - nature. However where their answers begin to differ is when you ask them to explain why.

Their are many players that fall under Player 1 that will say things like "Nature has powerback, that's why it's overpowered and it needs to be removed!" or they will even start recycling false statements such as "Nature bug is glitched! That's the only reason it is overpowered!".

However people that fall under Player 2 will say things like "The vita on base gear is too high and allows bug form to regen too much power. It also does the highest amount of single target damage due to its uppercut hitting too hard. On top of which, they adjusted how powers work so that hive mind no longer goes on cooldown when CC'd out of the animation, heavily reducing the skill floor of the power and making it much easier to play effectively."

Player's under category 1 will probably be happy with the powerback being removed, with a potential increase in healing (though more than likely just being happy with power back being removed). This simply leads to Sorc becoming the only viable main healer, making nature utterly useless. It isn't a change which improves the quality or intergrity of the game.

Player's under category 2 are more likely to understand why exactly bug is overpowered, and suggest some changes which will nerf bug but also keep it competitive. For example things like 1. Reducing the uppercut damage so that the dps it deals is more in line with other healing powersets 2. Reduce base vita and resto on PvP gear and give trolls/healers boosts to resto/vita in these roles to make up for the loss. This fixes not only the amount of power regenned on Bug but also the healing fire/atomic tanks/DPS have. You could remove power back from bug and boost the heals on nature, the only issue with this is that nature is so far behind the other powersets without power back that the increase in heals would have to be huge for it to be competitive, or alternatively the power costs themselves would have to be heavily reduced (though this is similar to what power back does right now, it just isn't as powerful due to no scaling from vita). Talve probably knows the exact numbers better than I do regarding this.

There's also similar examples I can give for DPS, where players from category 1 may believe things like celestial are top tier in 4s/5s where as player 2 understand why this isn't the case despite the huge amount of damage they pump out.

TL;DR A lot of people can tell you what is overpowered, but not why. This results in changes that - while effecting the powersets which need to be changed - effect them in negative ways.

Good luck with that Venge. I mean it.
I just feel it's hopeles and a waste of breath, time, and effort.