End Game content: The Unappealing Rat Race

It's to slow down gear progression for those who don't want to replay ... Not for the ones who are williing to shell out the dough... Why I said it's borderline pay to win... Obviously you have to complete the instances and take the gamble ...

beng legendary at this point is feels like your second rate if you're not willing to pay to replay

I don't think this is actually accurate. The pieces that we obtained this month (chest, waist, legs, and back) will remain the best available gear for those pieces in the game until episode 21.

Unless I'm mistaken, that is how it will work now. The only problem is the vendor gear being third best. I don't like that at all.

Dude why are you even going there really it's like you are trying 5o pick a fight with someone for little reason. I normally don't respond to your kind of postings but why man

Getting new content to play every month is a good thing. 2 months of nothing after a DLC dies is horrible. One lore for 3 months is horrible. Episodes where the Duos are just the same level, but back to front, are horrible. What we have now, content wise, is better. But there's still something off about this model.

Challenge is lacking. The game is too easy. If an instance is too hard, it's usually because you're playing with inept players. Otherwise everything is a breeze and even the Elite content doesn't push back. Elite content should not only be pushing back, but it should be knocking us on our ***** and kicking us while we're trying to get back up. But because it has that elite gear in it, which has a timer on it before it becomes irrelevant, there's no desire to make the Elite challenge, Elite, for fear of alienating the community.

As others have illuded to, as well, progression wise, the grind is mainly log in, run a Duo > if unlocked, run a raid > use replay badges to try again? > if no, log out. There needs to be more variety in things to do, as well. Right now, it's just beat the same instances you've been beating for months. Something different would be nice. New features. New gimmicks. That sort of thing. I dunno.

The man is well-spoken.

I'll say it again...a new DLC every 2 months instead of every month will solve problems for the majority of the community. I have friends who STILL have not come on since the switch to monthly.

2 things made thks game epic.
New hard or challaging content. Examples gates and prime. Challange and hard. Now its....... how can u push long standing players when u have end gamers who played less then 6 months and have little tutorials?

REWARDS. It was as fun to become fully geared and be comfortable in content as it was to get that 1st win. Prime as an example. 1st dropped it took some time to win in prime. = fun. Then once fully geared u had the joy of trying to get the feats and joy of being at full strength. The joy of seeing time invested rewarded and the time spent while fully geared. Best gear mepps.

Plus 3 cr gains every month nerfs last months content from the door and renders the last months gear less valueable. U can give the its good 3 month speach and I understand it is, but it feels unrewarding and stale.

Lets say luck happens to fall our way. 8 peices of elite gear and the affinity mods. How long till u need to luck into 4 more to maintain?


We had 1 real issue with the game once u removed walk ins in t4 and that was boredom. Monthly content fixes this. SM in t4 would of been epic. Lpve is a help but its so simple its painful. (Community requested it I know)

Your system negated a legendary perk in early access in the last episode. We could not run BD elite for 8 days and premiums needed to wait 1 day and was allowed to run it the 1st time the same day us legendary could.

When I log in its run 2 duos and once a week BD. Um is pointless cause in 2 weeks the gears trash. Its hard staying engaged with 3 months till gear resets and a new set hits. Plus 3 cr per month and luck.

Per 6 months one gain of 3 cr after 3 months, zero luck on anything not gold and never ever ask anyone to lose a perk we had for years fixes everything.

This exactly. The lockout from elite after you finish regular is raid just discouraging. Then u have to wait until the next week to use your progress point, then hope you get good enough group together for elite, because leagues and players don't play as much. So not only is it not likely that you get decent gear because of drop rates for elite gear, it's hard to even get it done.

Low gear should not be dropping in raids. 112/122 gear should NOT drop in raids. It should be if the gear level is 128 in vendor, side bosses should drop 129. Last boss drops 130. Or have it like how paradox is if you do something a harder way, you get 88 gear for EO instead of 87 for side bosses.

Elite gear in elite raid should be 130 gear side boars. Elite gear last boss with ways to earn extra rewards for doing a feat. way. It's ridiculous to get people to do feat.s in a lot of things. Make the gear drops change for achievable feats. You must do the feat.s to get the best gear. etc. Reward players for achieving feat.s and make progression revolve around achievements.

Part of the problem is...the chase for elite gear. Every1 I talked to, can't stand it. If you get up to 8 pieces of elite gear, you have to replace it so quick. Crafting should allow to upgrade the gear u achieved to be usable in the next content. So the 123 elite gear should be craft able to 126 elite gear level to match the same tier. I don't get this 123 to 126 to 130 progression gear. Keep the same tier highest gear the same level it confuses to many people. Especially those returning to the game. There is no reason to have a higher level every episode & the stats are so minimal from 123 to 126. But cr means everything now & sp means next to nothing.

We need good consistancy. I despise this crafting ONLY the face pieces. It should still drop also & be purchable.

Ok so I've been playing this game a long time, like I said over 4 years and in that time I'm pretty close to 10,000 hours of game time.

In my view the "most fun" I had in this game was back when T4 was the current tier and up until origin crisis. The content felt like it had exceptionally more longevity and gear didn't seemingly escalate quite so quickly and I think I can put tabs on the change.

Episode 3 - Battle for Earth - Relevant Content - Gates, Prime, Battle for Earth Duos
Maximum Gear was obtainable from the T4 Vendors, 4 styles were available to collect, Prime Helm was rare, best helm, there was also a decent helm from "Gates" Helm of Cosmos which was between vendor and normal "amazon drops".

Episode 4 - Hand of Fate - Wayward Souls Alert, Black Dawn Raid, Vengence Raid
Maximum Gear was from the T4 Vendors, same as above. Norseman gear was introduced which was 'marginally' better than the vendor gear, I believe it was 1 item level and that stat difference was negligable, but it was a different style and gave people a "carrot to chase".

Episode 5 - Home Turf - Daily Solos, Daily Bounties
Maximum Gear was from the T4 Vendors, same as above, Norseman gear marginally better, nothing in this DLC replaced the T4 Vendor gear as being best or the Norseman exception.

placing 3 months between each DLC effectively gives T4 vendor gear a "longevity of 9 months" in the yellow category.

Episode 7 - Origin Crisis - Iconic Solos, Brother in Arms, Family Reunion, Nexus, Paradox
The introduction of Tier 5, everyone was largely speaking under geared for this content it was "hard" and challenging as would be expected, people had to level up by doing the solos getting green gear, doing the alerts, getting green gear and blue gear, doing the first bosses of Nexus getting blue gear, completing nexus, slowly beating paradox, closing tunnels, slowly doing tyrant + bosses in the middle until eventually "Epic Odyssey". (also see below Sons of Trigon Gear) - there was also "vendor" gear item level 85, aquaman themed that could be purchased to help progression.

Episode 8 - Sons of Trigon - Open World, Trigons Prison Alert, Tunnel of Lust Duo, Knightsdome Duo, Cathedral Duo

The continuation of Tier 5, the gear from Paradox remained the top gear, this DLC introduced item level 86 vendor gear which helped with progression and in turn helped you to better complete "Paradox".

placing 3 months between each DLC effectively gives T5 paradox raid gear being the best 6 months of longevity in the blue category.

Introduce solo loot in here somewhere - along with Weapon Mastery.

Episode 9 - War of Light Part 1 - Drop gear from A&B better than Paradox (role specific drops, solo loot) - 3month
Episode 10 - Amazon Fury Part 1 - Vendor gear better than the drop gear (role specific) - 3 month
Episode 11 - Halls of Power Part 1 - Drop gear better than vendor gear (unattuned) - 3month

Then as we've progressed through each DLC every time the gear has become better than the previous with each DLC, so gear replacement is occuring every 3 months (if you're playing two roles, that's two sets of gear every 3 months + mods)

We've now entered monthly content where initially the "green" gear was better than we had from the last "purple set from Happiness Home". It's important to note here "introduction of CR scaling".

This is also the devil in the detail because when the CR scaling was introduced "CR" meant everything stats meant very little.

(..continued)

(...continuation)

So what happened was in order to "more easily complete content" people were compelled to chuck on "green gear" to progress more readily. Then we got the purple gear from bombshells, the purple gear from unholy matrimony, the purple gear from desecrated cathedral, the continuation of "green/blue gear" the purple vendor gear, the "elite gear"; all of which "increase CR" the driving force of "damage dealing and survivability".

To not kid around with the detail either just "1 CR" can make a significant difference in certain content at a certain level when it comes to survival and damage dealing, this is evidenced clearly in Survival Mode and Elite Content.

To sum it up as well at this point at the particular point in time we all several sets of gear that now offer "distinct advantages" and therefore a feeling of compulsion to use, and with its use "a mod".

What I'd like to point out is that with all CR being equal stats, do begin to matter again, so a "serious player" is going to mod any piece of gear they consider actually using; which means a "cost" is incurred

(a) exceptional recovery kits or total recovery kits
(b) exobytes
(c) complex & simple materials
(d) focusing elements and interfaces

The cost of mods has become exceptionally expensive we're talking about 21 exobytes per mod now, so you're either buying kits, or buying bytes or farming, but you're doing something for this, so this is important in my approach to playing the game.

now we've got all the current levels of gear.

(a) trash gear
(b) vendor gear
(c) rare gear
(d) elite gear

Like I'm saying all these pieces of gear "offer" a potentially distinct CR upgrade depending on where you're at in any given cycle, which lasts 3 months max (lets excuse that first cycle of monthly episodes, it was admittedly a hot mess).

One of my biggest problems primarily rests with the introduction of "elite gear" and it in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but bear with me here, because I think what is broken is the "delivery of it".

The "elite gear" is presently all that is "being sought" because it's so easily obtainable and is being obtained by people that aren't even completing content and quite likely never will. They're replaying the content by doing first and second boss because they're generally exceptionally easier than the last boss.

I also consider that on the basis of this behaviour the "elite content" is not hard enough, not even near.

When elite content was first proposed it was suggested that it would "not be for everyone" and would in fact be only for the "best of the best", the "elite".

The more casual players would however, still have the "normal raid" and could come back to try the elite raids when they further progressed if they were not 'capable at the time'.

At the moment though it feels like the "elite content" is merely a repetition of the normal content, just with an additional lockout, and I know this may not be the intention so please don't take offense but you can't blame people when they start flinging around accusations of "replay badge gouging" because effectively what people are doing is running normal and then "spamming elite, often not even completely".

What this results in is people then gearing up using three, potentially four types of gear, "trash, vendor, rare, elite" aiming for completely elite, not once but twice for both roles.

I will admit there has always been "trash, vendor and rare gear" but the "elite gear" has created another new layer and I feel the reason this layer has been created is because its too easily accessible that it's become the "norm" and the introduction of "socket affinities" only exacerbates this because people want it even more, you've also got the "two different styles" so people are striving for both sets, both rare and elite thereby doubling the content being run.

This is where the "community fault" also comes in because what happens is people start spamming the "1 piece of relevant content" that is going to give them "elite gear" and nothing else because it offers them no meaningful progression. (I challenge you to take a look at how many times Blackest Day has been run, particularly "elite" without the last boss being completed and how many "replays" have been spent doing it - I hazard a guess you'll see my point).

What happens is that this then has a detrimental affect on the rest of the game and community, no one wants to run the other content, it offers them no meaningful reward and as a result the "lower tiered" new players are suffering.

Notwithstanding the fact that people in the community are reluctant to "teach people" it's difficult to expect them to "teach" when they're not even showing up to the "party in the first place".

Coming back quickly to the "elite gear" issue as well you start to also see a degree of discrimination where people suddenly start saying "GLF members for FOS1 CR145+" I mean yeah an exaggeration, but you must see my point.

Conclusion

To summarise my points, there are some key changes that I've seen over the years and they'd probably be summed up in the following points that I would consider have had a negative impact on the health of the game.

(a) there has been an increase in the "frequency of gear remaining relevant" - 9 months, 6 months, 3 months

(b) introduction of CR Scaling or the "degree of it" on the gear chase - I don't think the idea of the scale is a bad thing but the "degree maybe needs tweaking?

(c) Introduction of elite gear that is too easily obtained and potentially not relevant long enough (maybe elite gear could stay relevant for 6 months rather than 3?

(c) One I consider is a large driving force, Replay Badge "Sharing" I think this has exponentially increased replays, which is completely acceptable from a "business perspective" but it is allowing people to "replay elite content without completing it, with little/zero financial consequence, which I remember back when "prime and paradox was relevant" would limit people from just "spamming content and would allow more natural longevity".

I'm sure I have more thoughts, but this is what I've put together for now, I appreciate that this may very well become a "living discussion" and I'm happy to hear your potential ongoing thoughts.

I felt it important to also add "skill points" Mepps.

This has caused a critical change in the "attitude of progression".

once upon a time skill points were treasured, the more you had the more innately stronger you were.

Now these have been watered down to the point of insignificance due to CR scaling.

You've now therefore got 70sp players doing just as much damage as 230sp players because the "stat increases" are so insignificant.

The 70sp players will hate me for saying it, but that's not a fair reflection of the effort put in and the reality is, is that a 230sp player should always be exceptionally stronger than a 70sp player and due to the way the game is currently structured that is not the case.

What exactly to do with skill points may require more thought, but it also a point of issue I felt I should point out, because it also created longevity to content as people continued to play it to get "feats".

now with CR scaling, people don't even care about completing the feats.

In a nutshell, the reason why I finally left this game.
I endured the insanely stupid, immature community (and I am NOT talking about ANYONE on this forum who happen to be very kind ppl and alas basically never-met-in-game-ppl also).
I endured the nonsensical updates, the grossly broken powers, and game mechanics completely infitted to the superheroic genre.
I endured glitches, unannounced out-of-line servers with no compensations nor refund.
I endured this 3 years long, calmly, heavily supporting the game and promoting it along my friends.
Now I'm bored to have to farm silly, ever-the-same-looking missions and operations, to drop more stuff that will barely allow me next month to farm more silly, ever-the-same-looking missions and operations. I'm done with it.
To me a superheroic game should not be about WOWing the stuff all around. The monthly rate made it all the more obvious and I'm done.

Plz no for several reasons (- while I can very well understand those having huge amounts of SP wanting them to matter more).
First of all putting more emphasis on SP would create a more uneven playing-field. Currently the community is already somewhat divided (talking mainly PUGs) bc we have Replayers(/lucky ones) sitting at 145-146 CR while the rest is mainly inbetween 143-144CR. Aside from exclusion in LFG also balancing of new content already has to suffer bc of that (everything even easier with my full elite 146 Replay gear ). If yet another "layer" of characters strength in form of SP is added that most likely would escalate current problems even more. Most content just has to be beatable by a majority also from an economical point of view.
Also SP do matter already. While that arent huge % ofc they can make a difference like for example making you complete that one more round of SM or whatever you wouldnt be able to accomplish without them.
Regarding "fairness" we have to consider DCUO being a 4-5 years old game. You ve been playing for 4 years and therefore could earn you SP at tier while content was relevant/latest, crowded, and you didnt have anything else to do. New/returning players dont have this preconditions and playtime lots of high SP players had over the years. Lots of SP being earned by dropluck or grind adds to this. Also having high SP is an advantage which is mainly earned in the past- not in recent relevant content. DCUO after all is the only game I know letting you carry over your past accomplishments (strength in the form of SP) to recent content while in other games leveling/gearing is basically the same for everyone once a new DLC drops regardless of what you accomplished 2 years ago. (again uneven playing field) Therefore I think the whole concept of SP is inherently flawed and should have been mainly for bragging rights or styles. On another note playing for all these years and earning that SP was fun in the first place after all wasnt it? And thats basically all the fairness required- at least imo.

I don't always agree with you but this is spot on the exact problem. Obviously the old system wasn't perfect but it was better than this. Hell if they just released the same content they are doing now (same structure) but all of it once every 3 or even 4 months it would be better. The point is out of all you said it's that we really have just gear and a few other small things to grind atm and we don't even get time to enjoy the gear... We're hampster wheeling here lol.

I for one , feel like Alerts and solos are not getting any love. This is due to the fact they are now on a 2:1 rate release with raids and duos . I also miss real solos, in the on duty tab with a mission and boss. Open world dailies are more of a "do this x number of times and do that x number of times". They feel more like busy work than a mission. I miss these because they are easier to form a group for . I always have enough league mates for an alert. Not always the case with a raid. Sometimes new content requires a 2nd tank or healer and even though we have enough people , not enough of the roles. I'm weary of lfg and the p.u.g. life (until psn Id's are hidden I don't like being near any would be hackers inspecting me). Being stuck with someone who won't listen or being a top notch jerk because we wasted our kicks on someone who did not leave group before disconnecting is another good reason. Mix it up . Every three month cycle flip the ratio of alerts and raids.


Then there's pvp. I call it Lantern war . Besides the op flavor of the month, the only way to thrive is switch to HL or Rage. HL and Rage can use AM in pvp....try that with quantum or Munitions. Add the new weapon damage in legends and it's just as unplayable. One handed and martial arts are nuts.


Then my very favorite....................INVISIBLE players . Team mates in pve who can't be picked up, and opponents in pvp who pound you into quitting. This has numerous threads dating back for months. We can not get one word about it from any green names here. The only reply I've had on this is on twitter. The fact we had a constant disconnect problem in Gotham the entire month of October really made me wanna quit too. I was told the problem was not known about by a few green names in the last week of October......yet threads about it date back to the first week of oct, along with bug report. Our posts on a game breaking bug were unread for almost a month. Enough negativity though, I love the game and would like it to return to being fun.

Replacing gear every month is akin to rat race no matter whether only some certain pieces will be replaced.

Earlier, we could get the full gear in quarterly DLC and we could farm the same in about one or two weeks using replays (before RNG was diluted and rare loot drops were considerably reduced). Then for the remaining period we could enjoy the game for the next two months without having to constantly farm gear like we do it now.

The game stops being enjoyable this way and more or less feels like a job. This change to monthly cycle limits everyone to one single piece of content because all irrelevant content (all content except the current episode becomes useless since we like to get the gear drops within that month) share the bad luck limiter.

It's a horrible experience. The quality of content has declined. The replay spam has become a necessity and the rest is history.

There is a lot of great content in the game, that if made worthwhile to any degree you would actually choose to play because it is fun or simply a change from the usual grind...unfortunately it exists on the back of one of the most stupid changes in gaming history this game has been structured to render it worthless and drive you to a smaller and smaller subset of the whole....a self defeating cycle that destroys content validity out of hand and leaves the player fewer and fewer ways to feel valued, satisfied or entertained the higher they rise.

The real problem here is that progression in dcuo has been made to equate to isolation and exclusion the polar opposite of what most strive for and a serious disincentive for even the most dedicated of fans.

This right here,

It would help the more casual players if, once a progress point is set, it is not reset until the elite content is played. Actually, that would make life easier for everyone.

Introduction of CR scaling is destroying the game. It didn't have to. When it was introduced, new gear would typically be 1-2 cr better than old gear. You'd progress, but slowly. Before CR scaling the stats of the new gear were much better, and it was my understanding that stats were flattened to prevent "stat inflation"

But with the latest content, we have the worst of all possible worlds. We have gear that-- since it jumps 5-10 cr at a time--has much better stats, and gear that-- since it has a much higher cr-- causes the cr scaling effect to explode.

If gear progression were handled in any sane kind of way, the top CR now would be in the 128-130 range, more content would be challenging, more content would be relevant, and players would be complaining about something else.