Another update targeting only DPS...when is it the turn for support roles?

No just no.

Well, in solo content everybody should be able to heal themselves, give themselves power and do great damage without switching there gear or stats.

Or better yet everybody should be able to burn, give power to the group, heal the group and Tank bosses in the end content raids.

Now that don't sound right so why should real Troll's suffer because of the those who don't know how to control adds, use debuffs and give power.

The logic seems to always apply for Tanks, Heals and Troll roles but for the life of the game DPS's remain immune, support roles don't need to do 1 to 1 damage to DPS's, but to at least be collectively brought up to match the damage of at least 1 DPS.

1 Tank + 1 Healer + 1 Troll = 1 DPS, instead of the current setup off 1 Tank + 1 Healer + 1 Troll = 1/4 DPS or 1/8 DPS it is unbecoming and only adds to the need to drop the extra roles to add another DPS.

Controllers job is to CC, just because they give 1 or 2 powers to Tanks that happen to juggle, and have 1 Healer power that can stun adds disregarding there own Dom rule does not make them Trolls.

I simply asked that the lines not be blurred more. Particularly in solo and duo content, it helps to have all roles have some flexibility. It's just when a healer or DPS can lock down adds better than a controller or tank, I think it's a problem. The roles need to mean something.

I want to be clear about my prior statement that I was in no way saying that it takes no skill to DPS. To be good at any role takes skill. It's just that to be mediocre at DPS is easier than being mediocre at support. I should also say that there is nothing wrong with wanting to DPS. Like I said, I play all roles.

There were already many more DPS than support before GU 47. It's just easy to stick to what you did for the first 30 levels plus. Learning to specialize isn't for everyone.

And yet Superman can probably pulverize you into subatomic particles with a punch.

There are many abilities in the powerset trees that only see the light of day during leveling. I agree that shouldn't be the case. AMs have made things even more restrictive. Another reason I have no desire for AMs in support roles. I like being to run multiple viable loadouts as support. Also, see my other post about blurred lines.

Yeah, the issue is that in group content, if roles other than controllers and tanks can CC, it lessens the value of those roles. I have no issues with all roles being able to be effective at CC and other such effects in solo and duo content. There's a reason for Dom requirements in group content, though. What was being discussed was essentially that the Dom requirements are ignored for certain abilities of DPS and healers.

I'm not sure what you want here. Support roles already had their damage penalties removed. The only things that separate support from DPS now are lower achievable might and precision and lack of access to damage modifiers. You can use the same tac mods. CS, PS, Escalating Might, and Relentless Precision all work the same. Now, if you use Max Damage as support, you do only get the 10% bonus, whereas the DPS get the 60% bonus.

So, do you want support roles to get full access to damage modifiers? Do you want them to have more gear might and precision? Both? Surely, you don't want support roles doing as much damage as DPS, do you? Assuming not, how much of a ratio? And why? Why are you focused on damage production as a support role? I guess I just don't understand the point.

I'm not all for tanks and healers getting an am, it would make trollers completely useless at this point. With dps basically able to keep themselves powered up, what is left for trollers?

I think it's time for support roles get a buff in damage, not saying they should equal to a dps but the out put of dps compare to support roles is way to high at this point.

I totally agree on all fronts there, I misunderstood what you were saying, although not all my my reply where I quoted you was directed at what you said, it just related to that subject.

We really need more content (some at all) aimed at support roles pre level 30. In fact the game could do with a solo quest at level 10 for every role, that says hey you can now change role, do that now, enter this instance, perform that role, here have a cookie. although that raises the issue of support roles being almost useless at level 10 due to lack of relevant powers. healer powers in particular are able to level up without even picking up heals. Still.. something should be done to teach/train people about support roles, even if they are given a free power respec and told what to do.

On a side note, I think if content requires each role, group sizes are too small. All powers can dps, more than half of players playing those powers probably focus on DPS (probably more), so a group size of 4 with 4 different roles and one of those roles being more popular than all others combined... It's a wonder this wasn't a bigger issue at launch, group size doesn't relate well to the number of roles the game has. Most games with group sizes of 4 only have 2 support roles, so 1 healer 1 tank, 2 dps. it splits nicely. With 3 support group sizes normally increase to 5 or 6.

These issues with support are just compounded by so many other factors, most minor, but the end result is hardly a good place to be content.

I posted this in a similar thread, but I feel strongly about my, post and it is relevant to this thread:

Without reworking the entire mechanic of how support roles are played, we could at least increase their presence by introducing this raid buff. What if the raid was given a 5-8% damage multiplier for every pair of support roles that were in the group up to a maximum of 15-24%. Here's why I think it would work. A 5-1-1-1 group does have more, but they are more wreck-less and can't sustain as well if a support role goes down and out and there is no one to switch mid combat. In a 2-2-2-2 group it is definitely more safe to run, but sometimes the burn can be a little slow and really drag the raid out. It becomes more of a focus/endurance battle than it does anything else. The damage multipliers would cover the entire raid (support and dps alike) and encourage people to pick up multiple support roles increasing the demand for them and decreasing the need for heavy burn. I do realize that there is a serious tank shortage (another issue to discuss later), so most groups would probably only get a 10-16% damage buff, but they also have an additional dps in there to burn too. Also move it over to alerts as well. a 1-1-1-1 alert may have a 20% damage buff as well. I don't know how the community feels, but I am one of the crowd that would love to see 2-2-2-2 or 1-2-2-3 become the norm again. For the record I am a troll and although I can solo troll all the content, I do not discourage the group if they prefer to have two trolls in the raid.

Maybe? That's a big maybe and would basically be a maybe in the sense of having all support being capable of doing DPS, no specific DPS role and special hidden mechanics to give a compounded DPS increase. Those playing as DPS would be doing more damage because of the role they are performing (what they cast), not the role they are flagged as from pressing T. This is unlikely to happen and would probably cause more upset than GU47. Would I want this? probably would be preferable to how things are now, you'd have a lot of wiggle room for hybrid gameplay and a lot more versatility in what can be used to beat the content we have. EDIT: This is basically how Rift functions.

But that's not specifically what anyone is asking for, no.

There are so many factors that boost the damage of DPS that they no longer only do 3 or 4 times more damage of support, they do so much more damage that anything support do is meaningless. Full access to damage modifiers might be enough alone to make support offer meaningful DPS, enough that running 1-1-1-1 in FE doesn't feel like we're wasting everyone's time.

Why do we mentioned support damage rather than anything else?

Because increased damage would be a band aid fix and make running with support/multiple support less of a handicap. That'll offer something and buy some time to work on more meaningful support changes.

In a sense a dps should be doing about 3x the damage of a support role. Which is how it was around launch In most MMOs. This is so where it is not a major factor in the leveling process to where dps is on a higher priority( i.e. role balance of 60/40 which most MMOs strive for, however most achieve only 70/30).

However we have seen a power creep so much that I noticed this problem doing solos as a healer, then as a troller and then finally as a tank in gotham under seige and metropolis battlezone. I then went back into open world T4 instances as a support role after GU47 to see how the difficulty was.

This was so much so that playing not as a dps was in fact more difficult. This of course can partly be avoided if devs make all gear unattuned through all tiers, but we know that wont be anytime soon. Thus forcing a player to go as dps is the early stages of the game.

This thread is not really concerning support roles at endgame, but support roles as a whole. Why people either quit because of that or go dps in the early stages, and how power creep affects the game in such a way that forced devs to implement content that can be completed easily by 4 dps as opposed to the standard.

The clear answer of content mechanics is not enough, nor has it been properly implemented. This has been seen in the past, and we wont see in the future anytime soon.

How would support roles doing more damage be any different than what we have now ? Everything would still be the same, cause a DPS will always do more damage. Trolls are the only role i think that needs a change, It really needs some diversity between power sets, such as different ways to power group members or troll powers having different benefits.

The devs have tried incorporating mechanics that favour support roles, but the community will find a way around it. However, ToTD was well done, and HoH.

Perfect ideas for a ROLE TUTORIAL...if you ask me...

Posted my best idea to solve this here...
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/mage.253929/

The community is seemingly against new roles on principle.

I don't really feel like reading through 10 pages, but as a support role player I agree. Dps get the longer end of the stick for both PvE and PvP. I would suggest they amp up controller role debuffs, make them more effective, and remove power over time effects PoT gives to other roles, and give all roles a power back mechanic. Cause as of right now trolls are only needed to keep the healer and tank(s) powered up :/ might as well make it a debuff / stun role only.

If we don't adequately utilize the roles we already have, what's the point in adding more?

My approach to this is hybrid. I wear a mix of DPS and support gear and run in support stance. I can produce more damage, but I have the advantages of the support role. For instance, when the Spark solo first dropped, I found it easiest to run in healer stance, but wearing all DPS gear. Damage out was great, but I could also mitigate incoming damage with heals. I often titrate my ratio of DPS to healer gear like that. Unless I really need strong heals, I push the DPS gear. With drops, it's pretty easy to gear up both roles, even if you prefer one. Three to one is what I typically see when running against equivalent CR DPS as healer.

Never! It's dps universe online

It's not on principle.

On principle I'd like as many roles as they can produce.

Yet the roles we have don't offer much diversity or depth, group sizes are too small to accommodate more roles without designing all content to be role optional by default, which doesn't seem to be the direction they want to go and 4 dps would be the result anyway... because faster/easier/better/stronger.

If the support roles we have are already this neglected, what hope is there for a new support role? The solution to neglected support roles isn't another support role to support the support...