the fire AM community is frustrated

Have you tried mixing WM with fire Am? I am currently testing the staff into mortor WM with my AM loadout. Tried it in necro and seen good results. The AM is not as bad as people are making it to be. Sure it not as good as gadgets but it is still good.

I barely make time to play on my main lately. So, haven't done anything on my fire guy since before GU41. Now that the new DLC is on test, I may run fire there and see how the AM compares. I'm no where near 94 gear on my live-server toon. So, test will be the perfect place.

Nope. He does not. You can't possibly know a majority of the fire players either, so don't speak for all of them. I played with AM and with WM and they're both good imo.

ok…well you guys stay in denial…i dont know who you are trying to convince…fire's AM is the weakest of all the AMs…by FAR…so stay there trying to please the devs or convince people who dont play with fire…..but us fire users know…and im taking my time and money elsewhere

I tried mixing in the AM with WM and came up with decent results. But the AM by itself isn't worth it. Honestly now I'd rather just stick to WM. Fire's AMis a great idea but I'm not seeing where it's any good.

Fire's AM seems kind of strange after update 41. Your enemies no longer need to be on fire so long as you have volatility up, which makes it the same as gadgets.

For me, this makes is much less fun-- I liked the challenge of juggling multiple interactions-- but at least it's more on-par.

As far as AM vs WM I read in another thread (can't find it now) that the developers keep stats on players playing on the test server and track the top DPS players using WM and AM for each power (there was a chart in the thread). For most of the powers the top DPS of the day did a little better using AM than WM, but they were pretty close.

OTOH this thread here -- https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...-mass-detonations-base-damage-lowered.222698/ -- shows that damage from mas detonation is lower than it was.

Are you kidding, right? Because everytime I played with AM, is just for play solos, because, in Raids, is weak, and I was full might moded, more then 5800 of might. I tried several loadouts, and all of them was weak.

The guy is not speaking for all players, but for the major, he say something in the title just for take attention, and it's clear this for me, that you not account on this.

rival exe, It's IMPOSSIBLE the AM from fire be better then WM, because, when you are casting MD, you can hit your enemies with your weapon in WM combo, then whern you hit Spontaneous Combustion, Spontaneous Combustion do the same damage of MD, there is a big hope between both mechanics, if you can't see this, and still think the AM is good, tell us your big secret to do the same damage from WM. Please, tell us the secret.

This is the point! Why use Mass Detonation for do this number, if I can do the same number with Spontaneous Combustion in WM, and hit the enemies with my weapon????!!!!! THERE'S NO REASON!!!!

Fun

And do bad damage, and probably be kicked? No, this is not funny!

I do competitive damage,
And have fun,

Are you sure you are using a propper loadout?
Fire is balanced now,
It needs experience

Ask around,
Be more open minded,
There is a structure for Fire and you probably haven't grassped it

Now, if it is no fun for you that is another story,
But your damage should be competitive or you are doing something wrong

I tried a lot of loadouts, but the best one was posted here by someone in a video, and I reply.

Explain to me how can be competitive, please, explain how much damage you do, because I really tried, man, trust me, I tried a lot. All times, I played with AM, I did bad damage, explain how can be better cast MD, if in the same time I can use DW, do 2 attacks, do more then 10k damage, and do Spontaneous Combustion to do a average damage arround 7k, that is the the same average damage form MD, arround 7k!, there's no reason to use! I know a lot of good players with Fire and they say the same to me.

Explain how you are doing decent damage, please I want to now. I am open mind here, this is why I am trying to undestand how you can do good numbers, becasue I cant see good numbers.

I call tell you this, sometimes MD do 18k damage, that is WOW!! But, this is so rare, the most damage is arround 8k, the same damage from Spontaneous Combustion. To be really balanced with WM, the MD need do 15k average damage, not 8k.

It's fun play with AM? Yes, it's fun, but to play alone, because to do decent damage in a Lockdown for exemple, is weak.

what kind of might do you need to have SC do 7000 damage without a crit?

For me SC does about 2/3 the damage of MD when the target is on fire and like 1/5 when the target isn't burning. With max volatility MD nearly triples its damage.

Am I using SC the wrong way?

SC can crit up to 8-10k
Average crits are around 6k.

Mass Det can crit up to 15-18k but this is very rare.
Average damage is around 5-10k.

But during the cast of MD you are not doing anything, while if you are using WM you are getting around 10k from your weapon. Every time.
So...Mass Detonation can hit really hard ocasionally while WM+SC hit pretty hard everytime. Damage from WM is more consistent.

The good thing is that you can mix both. In between of each Mass Det you can throw a WM+SC. Depending on the weapon and combo you are using and you have to time it really good so you dont loose the Volatility pi.

Read this, I've used this the past two days with great results. :

https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...azing-guide-to-fire.632/page-117#post-2876786

While you're hitting MD, you have Inferno + Overheat + Burning Determination dots hitting constantly. This makes up the different in damage most of the time. This works great in the T6 Raids and Survival Mode. Because while you're moving around you're still doing damage.

Downside: Only shines in two troller groups. And yes, there may be complaining if they look at the score card and see you're using quite a bit more power than a WM DPS. Because of this, I have one Armory for AM and another for WM.

Well yes of course, you always have your DoTs active. Thats not what i meant.
Because with the WM you are using your DoTs too. Its not like youre only doing WM+SC.

Check out my post in the Developer Discussion GU41: AM Improvments to find out my opinion on the state of the fire AM atm. Also here is a video of a 28k Snuffout, who needs Mass Detonation.

what about non-crits? and with what might? Since I may not have the same skill points or iconic buffs as you, it seems like the non-crit numbers make for better comparisons. Also, doesn't the same percentage increase get applied to any power that crits?

People need to stop saying, "Look at this major damage" and then use Supply Drop. Great, you have a big hit once every 4 minutes. But what about the 3:59 in-between?

Snuff Out is nice. But you're stuck in one place and it only hits one target. Mass Detonate gives you movement and will hit multiple enemies.

Well yes, the right way to compare them is by the non-crits number, and of course, Mass Det beats SC in that comparision. The thing is, with WM SC crits every single time, while Mass Det does it once in a while. And thats where SC gets the advantage (plus the WM attacks).
My might is around 5.3k. Just a regular T6, im not even fully modded (just Syntetics V´s).