While we're adjusting lair battle rewards...

Right now we are finally having rewards for lair battles adjusted to reflect how long it takes to win a match. Is it possible we have rewards for the other matches scaled to reflect how long it takes for a round to complete so there may be an incentive for PvP players to try out larger matches more often, and dare I say, find out they really like certain maps they may not have exposed themselves to otherwise? By all rights something like an 8v8, which requires way more effort and coordination on behalf of an entire team should be rewarding more than a 1v1.

Also when commenting please take note that I have openly been opposed to it taking over 500 wins to fully gear up and wouldn't mind seeing a blanket reduction in the number of marks it takes to fully gear up. Keeping the number of wins required at a level to get players interested in PvP and learn the mechanics to see if they enjoy it, but not enough to make it feel like a chore would be more along the lines of what I'd like to see.

Yeah 8v8 need some incentive to queue, would make it interesting if full premades go up against each other

Think marks could be adjusted based on the type of match and the number of people in it.. So a 5v5 will yield more than a 2v2 etc

So Deathmatches will yield lower than say King of Hill or Capture Flag

Safehouse should earn you way more marks (maybe based on the result?) cause it feels horrible earning only 100 marks after playing something that resembles a rugby match xD

If the tweak is done right I can see those less popular maps being queued up more frequently - Also the Arena/Legend Directives could use an overhaul and instead of only granting marks you can get a chance for a base item or excec kit etc.. Lost count of how many of those I have deleted

I think a principle similar to influence should be re introduced, maybe not with kills but how the close the score was etc?

So a 0-1000 batcave won't give you as much as a 0-36 batcave (for the loser of course)

+1

Whatever changes should have been done all at once this just looks like some people crying about lair battles and getting there way and that's not good for anyone.

Rewards shouldn't be adjusted to how many players participate, an 8v8 FOS death match can go faster than a 1v1 batcave. What they need to do is take a look at their internal data and increase the rewards on the matches that take the longest.

Ace chemicals is by far the longest match, that damn score moves so slow!

I don't entirely disagree with the op since like he said large maps take more coordination and team work, but they don't necessarily take longer to complete

Volkenraider added something valuable to my idea that it should also be adjusted by type of match as well.

Establishing a standard based on the size of the group que is the simplest way to create a balanced foundation, and follows the current formula PvE uses. A bonus score could award additional rewards based off a combination of things such as match length, players damage/healing/power out/in, KO's/Captures, ect...

That would give balance with incentive.

As two other people have pointed out a good addition would to also take the type of match into account. Such as king of the hill rewarding more than death matches.

I also have advocated for rewards based on performance as well.

Just hope the devs don't lower the rewards from anything now. You know how they like to misinterpret feedback and ruin things.

200/100 should be the minimum and if they adjust anything it should be an increase to rewards

Other than lair battles having being lowered, I do agree with this.

I can agree with that idea .

Lowering the rewards was a really bad idea and a kneejerk response to a vocal minority crying on the forums about people "not participating" in 2v2 Lairs. Really? You think people aren't going to idle them because you knocked the rewards down? They idled the hell out of them when the rewards were less than 35 MoV per loss, now well, they'll just shrug and idle more matches to get the Marks for the styles/gear.

And no, that doesn't mean I'm in favour of removing the rewards entirely. That would just send the already small PVP population plummeting even further.

Even if it was farming that brought this to the developers attention, the response was needed. Lair battles were by far the fastest matches and rewards need to reflect that.

And as I said in the OP:

Yo man i was thinking.. i see how you feel about the cc and counter mechanics and i as thinking you should start post on it for it to be fixed Immediately. I will advertise on my server too support this and get the devs to fix it first. hat do you think?


I'd Be happy to support less matches to gear up....500 is too much imo

Yeah, I agree with adjusting the rewards to reflect the time matches take - obviously there's an issue with Lair Battles being over in 2 minutes and rewarding the same amount of marks as everything else. But lowering their rewards wasn't the solution. And lowering them in isolation makes it look as if this is a reaction to all of the recent whining about idle players in Lair Battles.

The root of the problem, is, as you've said, that it takes so many matches (win or lose) to gear up and just acquire the non-gear styles. Making players feel like they have to work (there's a difference between feeling like its work and earning your rewards) encourages people to engage in the hated "run 2v2 lairs and idle" behaviour or discourages them from bothering in the first place. Adjusting the rewards upwards for the other, more time-consuming matches would be a better move, though still not a solution.

Honestly, there is no good solution to the issues some people face with Lair 2v2s, but lowering the rewards for them specifically is not even an OK solution.

I admit, my post was also a kneejerk response to the adjustment rather to than your OP. Mea Culpa.

Feats for running 8s isnt incentive enough?? No? Meh.

Its alot easier to get one person with you to run 2s than it is to get 7 people fpr a 8s match. Its the primary reason i dont run 8d; that and the time it takes plus the consistent losing.

Majority of 8s i came across were over half made with leagues so i was losing alot. Why waste over 20mins on a match just to lose repeatedly?

If you want to promote these changes than i had better get more marks for losing a 8v8 than winning a 5v5 cause otherwise whats the point? I can spend half the time and get same marks. You should earn overall more in 8s be it win or lose.

Lowering the cost of marks I feel definitely was a good solution to the matches being so short. Like I said though, I'd prefer a lowered cost for everything as grinding for gear is just that, a grind, not real progression in addition to this idea.

The only people trying to set up 8s I see nowadays are people trying to do win/loss farming with the same two groups. So no, I don't think feats are enough to motivate people. As stated in the OP maps that require more of a team effort and coordination should reward more.

As per how much they reward, it'll really depend on the match type. Something like the headquarters maps, due to having more than one round, will definitely award way more than another map that doesn't have multiple rounds map, which will reward something closer to that of a 5v5 map depending on what type of match it is.

Rewards should not have anything to do with time the match takes imo but everyone wants to continue to degrade this gamr than so be it.

If i run a 8v8 that takes forever yet i get the same amount of marks as a 5s match losing than why should i do that 8 when i can do multiple 5s and get more marks faster?

Regardless of the "type" of map also. There should be no reason to try and encourage or try and force people into 8s. I personally hate 8s and if 8s require more team work and coordination than anything why are 2s and 5s the only competitive initiatives?

Dont try and push a certain type of fighting by giving more marks. 2s,4s and 5s are clearly the most popular setups of pvp so why are we giving so much push towards 8s? Wanna give more to 8s than fine but give more drops in 5s and other modes instead of catering to a few who want their way.

But alas thats the growing pattern of DC and for whatever reason you are taking a break like many others are including myself. Sub gone after 3 years of faithful playing smh.

You seem to have completely taken this out of context. An 8v8 match, due to typically taking longer, will earn more marks than a 5v5. A 5v5 may earn more marks than say, a 1v1. A 2v2 will earn less marks than a 4v4. It's not just a single game mode that'd be effected.

So it's not about forcing any one to play any game mode, but giving them a reason to try out other game modes.

This is how i would like it to be! The community runs more Lair Battles for easy and fast MOV .. Many player's would love to work on PvP
feats but is hard to get an instance going cause of lack of player's running 4v4, 5v5, 8v8... and if you qued after waiting over 15 minutes.. more then likely you are going against a decent team or OP players fully geared.. my suggestion is!
example prior to the change we were granted a total of 1000 mov across 1v1,2v2,4v4,5v5,8v8.. 500 MoV for lossing!


Winning a Lair Battle,(2v2),(1v1) will reward 70 Marks of Valor and 1 Mark of Legend.
Losing a Lair Battle,(2v2),(1v1) will reward 35 Marks of Valor.
Winning 4v4 will reward 160 Marks of Valor and 1 Mark of Legend.
Losing 4v4 will reward 80 Marks of Valor.
Winning 5v5 will reward 300 Marks of Valor and 1 Mark of Legend.
Losing 5v5 will reward 150 Marks of Valor.
Winning 8v8 will reward 400 Marks of Valor and 1 Mark of Legend.
Losing 8v8 will reward 200 Marks of Valor.


I think the more marks on higher groups will give players a chance to understand group mechanics in pvp
the smaller ques are for easy fast MoV middle groups are good for more of a reasonable amount of players that would run normally .. kinda like alerts in pve! 8v8 should work great for pugs and groups .. plus you get more marks and que shouldnt be a problem if the table stick imo

I agree with you 100%. Even during the testing, I said I felt the grind was too long for a new player. I think something along the lines of 25 wins for the lower sets and 50-100 wins for the newest set would be fair. Basically, it takes roughly 213 wins to gear up completely right now from Android to the Hush/Nightwing set. I think if anything, it should take 200 wins to get from cash set, to the best set.

I also agree with scaling marks as the matches get larger.