PvP GU41 - Beyond the Test Server

Again, balance in a video game is variations of something being on the same footing. That's the goal of Awesome/Advanced Mechanics with Weapon mastery; To put two different variations of the same thing on equal footing. The same is true with group setups. If I have a group with one troll and I'm facing a group with two trolls, we're not on equal footing, and therefore, the problem Tunso mentioned at SOE Live still exists; Group Setups make up a majority of the wins, and with the current power costs, the issue still exists.

The argument isn't simply flawed because you think these changes don't effect PvP on the USPS server. On the contrary, it affects all servers and all players whether you like it or not.

As far as access to test server, I paid a PC sub so I can have access, and I've tested extensively. My feedback is firsthand.

You're not getting the point. Adapting isn't an issue. The problem is the fact that variety is being constrained as a direct result of limiting power costs. DoT damage classes are going to be ousted in favor of little to no damage based power classes. Furthermore, premade 5v5 groups will be forced to run two controllers in order to sustain for longer than a minute based on the current power costs, which in turns limits even more power set variety in arenas as well as different setups. The fact is, power costs need to be adjusted to better suit balance and sustain variety in arenas.

The USPC community CONSTANTLY complained about 15 minute 50-0 or 0-0 matches in 5v5 Watchtower, which in turn directly effects input the developers receive and consider when implementing new changes in PvP. This update with reduced powercosts strictly favors a two controller setup, and that's a major issue in itself.

And as a result we evolve into different setups.

No, you are the one not getting the point. Power now becomes more valious. Before you could have 1 dps just spamming all his dots. Now, the dps have to choose the moments, adapt, decide when to burst or when the add pressure. Is more skill based.
Again, maybe now people can realize if they were only power spammers relying on the rest of the team, or carry their own weight.

And this affects both platforms. Even if USPC runs 2 trollers, the problem cost is similar to yours. FYI, USPC doesn´t run 2 controllers for the extra power, but the strategies it brings to the table.

Which in turn limits all other setups, limits variety in power sets in arenas, and ultimately doesn't solve the problem of group setups haven't too much of an effect on the outcome on the match.

That doesn't change the fact that two trollers means a better flow of power in arenas. Power spamming was never an issue on USPS because power was always limited anyways.

No. The limitation was self-imposed by you guys. Why limit to only 1 setup?

You limit tank powersets (ice, earth, rage, fire) to only been able to fill 2 spots out of 5. And troller classes to fill only 1 spot out of 5. And healer classes only 2 spots out of 5. We can run whatever setup.

And just for the record, GU 41 changes affects any setup evenly.

whats annoying is you being rude for no reason. If its about pvp, i probably know more about it then most people do.

As a dps there are many ways to do damage after this update. As it stands at cr 100 full pvp you can use 4 power back to back before you run out of power. For precision heavy dps all you need is 1 high damage multiplier / damage buff active and then you can focus on your combos and counters for your damage leaving your extra power for breakouts or cc abilitys / immunities. Now for the might heavy dps the new AM works great for those powers that use rely on dots and power interactions, I have tested it myself and you can have a lot of power refunded to you if you use it often. Using AM with Light I was able to do close to 10 powers back to back before I range out of power.

This update will make it harder for support to be support but dps will have no problem doing the damage they are ment to.

you're obviously having a hard time understanding what I'm saying and I don't know how to help you comprehend. but if you can't, you shouldn't just keep saying 'adapt'. in our matches nobody is spamming powers, especially the dps. I don't know where you picked that up or why you assumed it. from what I've noticed trolling and healing, the dps is the one using the least amount of power, focusing more on counters. so, your point is invalid. maybe power spamming is what occurs on your server and that's why you assume the same thing happens on US PS. from what I've seen and heard the US PC players are the ones that need to adapt. you're the only ones that DEPEND on a 2 troll setup because you guys are the ones that spam. if every other server (USPS, EUPS, EUPC) are using the same setup as a standard, and its working, then maybe you guys need to adapt and not everyone else? if you all didn't spam, you wouldn't need a 2 troll setup. matches for us never went to a tie or had such low scores like you have and its because of the roles we use. sometimes they do go the full 15 minutes but we never complained about it. what did you expect to happen when you run multiple tanks or trolls? a team with roles of a very high survivability rate and very little damage being put out since there's no dps, well that's just your own fault for using that setup. and since you all complained about it so much instead of adapting like you should, here we are today, debating over it because you only know 1 way to play. I hope that you can grasp what I'm saying in this reply since its getting a little old to keep explaining why you're wrong. thanks.

1st- Am not defending a 2 troller setup. You are the ones with that argument, not anyone in USPC. We say we have more diversity on setups, buy you guys just keep refering to the 2 troller setup. That´s all on you if you pretend to be naive by own choice. We do defend, this brings more skill to the table. And here is where you seem to have a problem.

And USPC runs variety of setups. I´ve seen pvp matches with the 1 tank 1 dps 1 troll 2 healers setup, 3 tanks 1 troller 1 healer , 2 dps 1 troll 1 healers, 3 dps 1 troll 1 healer, etc... So, who´s restricting setups? Not US PC fo sho.

So you are by definition wrong. You only pretend to make a change that affect your setup, you are the only ones QQing about it.

2.- If you say "nobody is spamming powers" then you should be fine. What´s the big deal?

Im right, your wrong, so let me continuously bring up irrelevant arguments as to why. Good discusssion right?
Seriously though, @???? Your posts have holes in them bigger than asteroid craters. Let me go point by point.
#1, you may not be advocating a 2 troll setup. But disputing the point Phil and I have brought up ( with no real argument behind it, just " adapt " and " dont spam powers " ) pretty much puts you on that side. If power costs remain the same, like you wish, then NO OTHER TEAM MAKE UP WILL BE REMOTELY VIABLE if it does not have 2 trolls, taking away from that "diversity" in teams that was one of the intended goals of this update. The thing I keep seeing in everyone who believes power costs on test are fine's arguments, is that the absence of power brings in the need for skill. Since when did using my loadout ever translate into a lack of skill? Using powers are apart of the game, just as much as the counter mechanics you seem to be leaning so heavily on to bring relevance to your argument are. Your second point was that PC wasnt restricting team makeups. No one ever suggested otherwise. All that was said about USPC in terms of pvp was that YOU as a community were the ones whose matches ended in stalemates. No other servers have issues with getting kills in matches, because there is a STANDARD. That standard is what kept matches from being endless, which was the issue at hand that was ADAPTED to. These "restrictions" in team makeups we put on ourselves were a way to deal with the apparent issue of high survivability, something mainly brought to light by USPC. You cant tell me Im wrong then say "adapt" when your server runs 3 healer 2 troll setups and gets mad when no one dies in a match. What sense does that make, tell me. Please.

Fixed so its readable. Also point by point does not mean 1 point.

The moment you spam them. Now, your skill points you when is the moment to use a power instead of just spam them to compensate flaws of your game.

You are wrong, and I´ll give you the courtesy of save you typing the question. USPC, having the liberty of choosing with different setups, adapts so those matches are never stalemates.

Let me quote WockaFlockaPhil:

"Now finally, let's consider the final objective of a 5's match; to win and to get a kill. Back before the introduction of weapon mastery, the USPS PvP community had the foresight to know that in it's current state, 5's were impossible. The fact was support roles were too strong, and kills would go on for way too long, even with one controller. We evolved and moved on to 4's utilizing the most basic setup (1 Tank, 1 Troll, 1 DPS, 1 Healer). This worked wonders. We constantly had matches each night, matches would NEVER go the full duration, and most importantly, wins were meaningful because it was based on skill/teamwork rather than setups."

Is not us who had the stalemates problem, it was you. And yes, there were close matches, and yes they are indeed fun.

You can find this here if you don´t believe me:
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/gu-41-pvp-season-3-feedback.221536/page-3

Also experienced pvpers that are on the test server agree, with the new changes, pvp matches are more fun than never.

So, if you want to bring arguments to the table, bring solid arguments not baby cries please.

Answer me this: If both of your pre defined teams are on even ground power wise. What team will win?

I´ll make it easier for you:

a) The best
b) The worst

your right but ADAPT dev said it s for your own goods...



your right but ADAPT...

You will have variety, the only difference is timing will matter even more now. Also, if you think the mana restriction is going to hurt good dips players, you are sadly mistaken.

Here's the thing though, it has always been this way. The only thing changing now, is Trollers will be a bit more valuable in PvP than Healers. However, even now, the problem you are describing still exists, way before this update even hit live. The only thing changing now is the emphasis on certain roles, therefore again your argument is 100% flawed, because the argument you are trying to use and label a "problem" is used right now and everyday for the past 3 years in PvP.

Furthermore, as you have stated on USPS you guys play by certain "unwritten rules", we don't on USPC. We have no rules. We use everything including the kitchen sink. This change is for the better of PvP in that it makes PvP more about skill, and less about which power set one selects, or which abilities someone is using. I'm sorry if you are having trouble seeing the big picture, but I'm pretty certain the power costs will stay the way it is now on test, as it was something the devs intended to speed matches along.

People will adapt and roll with the punches, like they always do.

Guess I forgot to put the "#2". Apologies

No ones crying, that term is very overused on the internet. However, this isnt going anywhere. I say power costs are exorbitant, you think using powers means lack of skill. Alright.