PvP GU41 - Beyond the Test Server

I've decided to take it upon myself to take the time to create an in depth discussion regarding the new and upcoming changes to PvP for the general forums population. The fact of the matter is, we're currently in the final stages of the next season of PvP, and everything has simply been under wraps up until now. I paid a subscription fee to have the ability to test these changes myself seeing that I enjoy PvP on a deeper level. With these new changes I've witnessed firsthand on test, I feel like the greater PvP community (outside of those that play PC or PC Test) need to have their opinions heard before everything simply is swept under the rug.

To put things into perspective, prior to the upcoming season, the primary issue that was outlined at SOE Live 2014 was the fact that almost all wins were determined strictly on setup, and that there were simply too many resets when it came to PvP. This essentially means that player abilities were way too strong and would reset teams back to full life and full power. These upcoming changes make alterations to the issue but, I feel like there needs to be a few changes in order to better tailor to the group setup issue that this raises up.

On the USPS (and from what I've seen, the EUPC and EUPS servers), the most common setup is 2 Healers, 1 Tank, 1 Troll, 1 DPS for competitive scrimmages. In 4s, the setup is typically 1 Healer, 1 Tank, 1 Troll, 1 DPS. On USPC, I've noticed a large variety of setups including (but not limited to) 2 healers, 2 controllers, and 1 tank. I'm not here to tell people how to play the game they pay for but, I feel these new changes really only take into account necessary changes from strictly one perspective.

The new changes being put into place are a step in the right direction but, they're simply overkill. The new changes can be viewed here: https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/gu-41-pvp-season-3-feedback.221536/ .

From what I've seen, a few revisions need to be made. For one, the power cost is extremely high. This was supposed to have a domino effect with the healing being capped at 25% so that whenever healers need to heal heavy damage, it completely empties the power bar, forcing a controller to struggle to keep the group powered. Though the idea is good, this has some negative consequences on the gameplay as well. Coupled with DoT durations being capped to 5 seconds, this essentially forces out any variety of DPS in a group simply because of high power cost. This will lead to certain powers floating to the top and create a large gap in terms of superiority between powersets. Furthermore, this really pushes forward the notion that all groups MUST run two controllers which, really does not solve the initial problem of group setups determining wins. This is a quick fix at best and can be adjusted with the following changes below.

The next problem is that supers are maintained upon entry into arenas. This problem has drastic affects on queue times and really slows down the process of PvP because it's natural for all teams to push for whatever advantage they can get within the confines of the rules, and supers are no exception. By removing supercharges upon entry into arenas, everyone starts on even footing, and there will certainly be deaths sooner than later. Supercharges save a lot of people from deaths when they're under 35%, and the problem was the fact that people were able to build supers way too fast and continue to cycle them since they started with full supers. Coupling this with the changes made to super charge effectiveness will not only speed up PvP inside the arenas but, will also speed up queues as well. This will lead to much better experience in general, and much more PvPing.

Additionally, in order to avoid further issues with group setups determining wins, healers need to be readjusted. Consider the fact that previous to this update, healers were capped at 65% of their healing ability. I think the cap should be upped to 35%. This allows multiple group setups to be viable but still lowers survivability so that there aren't full group resets.

Granted, these changes by themselves won't yield the results needed in order for PvP to be sped up and balanced but, coupled together, I think these changes can bring PvP right to the sweet spot that will make PvP amazing again. By reducing the power costs, the DPS out will be increased, and solo troll groups (as well as two troll groups) will be equally viable. This in turn allows for solo healer teams (with exceptional skill) to be functional, as well as the basic 2 troll 2 healer and 1 tank setups. By putting these changes into place AND by removing super charges upon entry in arenas, the desired effect of less survivability AND equally viable group setups will make all parties happy. I'm excited about the upcoming season, but I feel some of these changes are overkill, and can be reimplemented to create a better PvP experience.

Please feel free to comment or leave your opinions below

I agree with this 100%!

Off Subject: I love you and I miss you .
I agree with all this too.

After reading through these changes it seems the devs are focusing on more of the casual, random que PVP'rs rather than the true competitive PVP'rs. These changes could ruin that competitive community.

These "casual" (wrong use of the word btw) PvPer's outnumber their counterparts greatly.

I agree with these changes. The way power costs are on test puts a ridiculous amount of strain on all members of the group, not to mention it has an extremely visible finality to it. Everyone in the group will be drained of power in under 2 minutes trying to heal the damage thats coming in, and putting it out as well. Theres just too much going on. Not saying that lowering power costs make teams immortal, as someone said before, but that along with the changes Phil listed above are a more practical solution to what the devs intented to fix in this game update.

Hardcore pvpers will adjust and adapt regardless of the situation. With that said the devs don't have any real reason to make changes that would be ideal for the minority. Either way these changes are ment for those that just que arenas alone or those groups that don't have every role available, it gives each individual a chance to do more then rely on having the perfect team.

Now for the hardcore crowd just adjust teams and loadouts accordingly after update being mindful that each individual plays a larger part in your team, "weak links" will stand out so be sure to take the time to practice.

I agree with you except for the Supercharge part. In this Update you cant use Utility belts anymore right, so every scrim will be barebones

That "adapt" line is very played out and you skirted around the topic at hand imo. To start, what the devs wanted in this update was less emphasis on the group playing a huge part in pvp. I see you got that point. But then you contradict yourself by saying we have to adapt and change setups and loadouts to deal with these changes. The problem there is that any setup that doesnt have 2 trolls and 2 healers is doomed to fail. Sure you can say that this is mainly to cater to people who q up randomly, but there all its gonna be is a mash square fest. Competitive is probably the only place where people would have any kind of marginal access to their powers, and that should not be the case. That's just not how I want to pvp. Again, the changes Phil proposed are a nice medium for people who believe these power costs are exorbitant, and caters to the 'majority' of pvpers. Majority being those who dont scrimmage, if you take the definition used by Scorpion.

So can someone explain to me why earth is going to be op?

And are routinely ignored when they suggest changes to PVP. Which is why no one bothers to queue for it anymore.

What I meant to say is, not having a group apparently automatically makes you "casual". I for one, enjoy PvP a lot even though I never have anyone to group with. Back on topic though, let's not derail the thread.

Power cost is fine the way it is on test. It's very fitting for a 1v1/2v2 scenario. Most PVPers speak from a 5vs5s/4vs4s standpoint, forgetting that there are die-hard dueling who play the game as well. Nobody likes to duel a power spammer, this power cost increase prevents that and forces players to rely on counters and weapon skill and use their power wisely. Like Scorp said, adapt. Some things shouldn't have to be adapted to because they're just wrong, simply put, but this power cost increase isn't one of them, adapt.

Since you think that the power cost is fine on test, would you mind scrimming a 5's match again and posting the video here with both teams using the 2 healer, 1 troll, 1 dps, 1 tank setup please? i'm interested to see how that would turn out and see how you all adapt to that setup. i haven't seen as much as i've heard and am curious.

i agree with the original post and would like to add that based on what i've seen and heard from feedback, that the healing super charges have been over nerfed. i think it would have been sufficient enough with the healer bonus capped to 25% from 65% and not nerfing the SC at all or at least not so much as it currently is right now on test.

No, you guys go and adapt. If the 2healers 1 troll 1 dps 1 tank setup is standard in PS, everyone is on even ground. So why are all of you so worried about it?

You guys limit yourself to 1 setup instead of learn new stuff.

I agree with both of these guys. The power cost is fine the way it is on test and it needs to be left the way it is. This new system not only makes PvP more about skill, but it also discourages power spamming. Timing will be extremely important in PvP now, more so than ever before.

The ONLY thing I agree with in the OP, is that Super Charges should be wiped to 0% upon entry in the Arena. Other than that, I completely disagree with the OP.

The think to consider is the fact that these newly enacted changes don't actually set out to correct the issue at hand. It only solves part of the problem. The fact is, after this update is released, team setup will still be the primary decision maker as to who wins, while skill factor being second. The proposed changes will actually push to put all groups that carry minimum of one of each role +1 (of whichever role) on even footing.

@Giggles, I'm not entirely sure I follow regarding the issue with power spamming. Can you please go into more depth about this?

I see this more of a problem for USPC. Other servers have predefined 1tank 1dps 1troller 2healers setup. This put you guys already on even ground.

On the issue of power spamming, Healers being able to spam heals, Trollers being able to spam defib and pot, Tanks spamming shields, DPS stacking dots with multiple might based powers are all issues in PvP right now. This will not be possible in the new update because we have such limited power, timing will be key to victory.

Also, on the topic of team set up, this is also false. Since powers will not play as big of a role in PvP in GU41 due to the extremely limited power pool we will have, it will come to down to whoever the better player is... winning in the end. For example, Say a Healer and Troller fight 2 DPS, today, the Troller and Healer have a huge advantage, because the healer can muscle through the damage output of those DPS players so long as the healer has power. While the Troller slaps on the debuffs permanently and provides nearly unlimited power. This is not the case in GU41.

In GU41, that Healer can only heal so much, and that Troller can only put out so much power. Yes the DPS players are also limited in the damage that they can put out, but you will run out of power much quicker in GU41 than you do now on Live. So eventually it is going to come down to who the better player is once everyone is low on power, which will be very quickly, much quicker than we see now. This is just one example, but there are plenty more.

With that said, I currently fully support GU41 as is, and the only things I would like to see added before it is released, is 1) Safehouse Rescue, and 2) All of our Super Charge bars reduced to 0% upon entry in any Arena match. Other than those 2 points, and a few technical things being addressed still, I would say this update is definitely heading in the right direction. Also keep in mind that we all have equal everything as far as stats go with the exception of the mods we choose to socket.

P.S.

When people like ???, Spartacus, and me all agree with changes... It is clearly obvious the devs are doing it right. We never agree with each other.