Hard Light Challenge

For your test, please do the first room of Nexus with the four bosses. Do a WM test with Chompers etc. Then do a first-room test with WM and Entrap etc. Then do an AM test, with absolutely nothing but clipped constructs.

Then clear a hallway (ignoring those numbers) and do a single-target boss test.

Thank you!

The downside? You won't have the combat log analyzer.

I'll try to do that yeah. It might not grt uploaded till sunday however, based on how tommorow goes

I've run with a few league members and they say that using WM then a power clipped into another power is the way to go. Just by clipping powers and jump canceling you will only do 60-70% of the damage you can do with WM plus powers. Now just using WM and no powers clipping at the end may be about equal to the AM damage.

Maybe the solution to this whole debacle would be for the developers to do a special livestream featuring the developers who created the advanced mechanics to show us, once and for all, the intended way to play both a Weapon Mastery rotation and a Power's Advanced Mechanics rotation?

Messaging is a big problem in this game. Not everything is explained clearly. As a result, we have to depend on people who don't know for sure, with the answers based on speculation.

Maybe a livestream actually showing us what to do is what would be best to put this issue to bed once and for all. Because right now it's a case of the developers arguing that it's balanced and the community arguing that it isn't. Show us how your game works based on your designs and intentions.

Because how many people assuming that Advanced Mechanics means they never have to throw another weapon combo again? Is this supposed to even be the case? Who knows. It's all just hear say and speculation with patches of posts and "things that were said" jotted all over the place.

So how about it? A special livestream, explaining exactly how a player does incredible damage using advanced mechanics or at least how they are balanced from the people who build the systems. Show us Gadgets as a special GU40 preview then subtly slip the other powers in.

Is this challenge open to HL Trolls as well? I'd be interested in seeing the difference between HL No Weapon Controlling Power Regen vs HL Minimal Constructs Trolling (Hey, I think I just coined a term!) Power Regen.

I suspect the latter (using Brawlers) will generate significantly more power...which means any troll power can do what exclusively HL trolls used to be able to do...only better.

With just a little tweaking what you wrote can also kind of apply to Hard Light, Celestial, and Rage DPS and Weapon Mastery. Which is terrific for other powersets.

Obviously, using Hard Light as an example, it was not fair to be able to execute a non-splitting Martial Arts Spinning Punch and a non-splitting AOE One-Handed Flurry with four button presses.

On the other hand, if one of the things that set your power apart from others was Precision Attacks and now everybody has access to "better" Precision Attacks than your powersets.....

Since I can easily list 12 reasons they won't live stream hard light instructional video.

How about you pony up, record some comparative gameplay, post it for all including the developers to see.

The first person to respond to this thread was none other then Spytle himself, so you know he's looking.

Show him a video or several and then maybe we can get a dev live stream HL challenge we can all watch.

I'll be waiting for your challenge video

Look guys I love my HL toon. I think HL still needs some work.

We have debated, had a wip thread opened and closed, had a developer discussion thread open and closed, had several constructive and non constructive threads opened and closed since gu 38.

We can sit around and and wait for Tunso to figure out how to create a system to compiles and measure WM and AM data. Which would take time away from his work on gu 40, the new troll power set, he next DLC, any bugs you would like fixed, or the backlog if items we all want in a me they are trying to get to.

We can yell at, belittle, berate, or argue with green names over verbiage pronoun placement or we can post some videos, save them some time and avoid argumentative non construction combative posts.

Let's see some videos

A quick google search for how to post vids from the PS4 to the internet got me these results:

This one involves Facebook: http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1rsh2l/simple_guide_on_how_to_save_ps4_gameplay/

Here is a youtube vid explaining it better i think and also shows how to do it using twitch:

If i can round up some guys from the league i would like to try this.

If you are going to 4 man nexus and you are the only dps your damage out is going to be very similar as you are the only damage dealer... ...... your going to need to time the boss fight and hallways instead of just comparing your damage out.

So you want to prove the devs wrong? Smh...

Agreed. I accidently respeced out of WM before a raid with my cr104 damager, k waas being out damaged by someone with 100 cr, 4 lower than me woth t5 gear. I was kicked eventually cos I was doing .8 million after first boss and he was doing 1.5million. WM is essential

i will try and make a video on this ... now without WM i will use more power then the whole group! HL uses alot of power for a decent amount of damage without WM just saying i will need 3 trollers! now if i used WM i will do more damage in the long run with less power and maybe 1 or 2 trollers! i know for a fact that WM will be our best choice for damage until HL gets a proper REVAMP!!!!!!!!!!!

Hardlights Am isn't even awesome from when they first released hardiest This is when jump cancelation came in, in the first place. Devs expected we chain these combos correctly even before update 36. This is why Hardlights lacking now, now that Hardlights runs Wm it still can't compare to the others.

worst Dps powers according to my league Reason

Healers
Nature
Celestial

Trolls
Quantum
Hardlight

Tanks
They are all fine but not "balanced"

I was just having this discussion with someone I play with in game. They have always played with no weapon attacks at all (they have played since launch) which I found shocking. Prior to WM they would always be fairly close to the top damage out player, being no more than a few 100 thousand below. Since WM was put in the players that never clipped but did use weapon combos have dwarfed players that use no weapon attacks since overall even if you don't use WM the weapon damage in general got a huge buff. When the AM's were put in this person tried using that but since they still don't use weapon attacks and have never clipped anything ever they fell way down in damage compared to others.

Now this player is trying to figure out a new playstyle that will work for them and produce more damage out for them. I promised them that I would hop onto my PC account and test out some power rotations since there I can export the combat log to run through an analyzer program. Although I'm fairly sure that no matter what I won't be able to get them anywhere close to the damage out that can be done via a WM rotation or a AM rotation with weapon combo clipping.

I only say all this to indicate that apparently there are players out there that have had this playstyle for a long time (only powers, no weapon attacks).

Why would I do that? I don't play Hard Light and I don't know how to achieve maximum damage without Weapon Mastery, because nobody has explained how to do it the correct, developer intended way, as I stated in my response.

Like I said, there is no communication on how we are meant to play. Spytle's responses have been confusing. One minute he's saying that if you do Weapon Mastery combos, you aren't maximising your potential damage with Advanced Mechanics. The next minute he's saying do weapon combos.

There needs to be a straight up demonstration by the developers, how to use the mechanics to achieve the numbers which produced the graph.

For all you know, the way Hard Light the developers intended to be played after GU36, is currently working well and the problem is you and your play style. Maybe you're wrong. It's possible. You are human after all.

I'm not really sure what the point of this is? In the thread that showed the graph comparing AM and WM, Spytle flat out said it didn't differentiate between powers that use 'some' WM combos in their rotation and straight up WM. He also said they would try to find a way to get data that excluded WM combos entirely if possible, but as far as I know we have not seen that data nor any claims that non-WM rotations are even close. The data presented has already been acknowledged as misleading.

I dont think its really to prove the devs wrong moreso than it is to show the disparity between playstyles. Of course i presume it could be taken that way.

I think the point is clear and you kind of hint at it even in your post. Like you said, Spytle said they might not be able to differentiate. If we are able to provided video of the two with distinction then at least they can see the difference with their own eyes. I believe that's why Spytle came in and commented in the first place. He obviously would like to see it though telling him to use Weapon Attacks shows a little naivety on his part as to how HL was played before. Phantom Triangles were the only real weapon attacks HL players used and those without rifles didn't use any at all so neither should the person doing the AM run in the comparison.

I'm all fine and well with seeing a comparison between no WM and WM, but what I was getting at is that it seemed OP was calling for this challenge as a way to discredit the data when really...it's already been done. I do agree that phantom triangle was essentially the only weapon attacks being done when jump canceling was still around and HL wasn't dipped in molasses speed-wise. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't upload a video, I'm just pointing out I think we all know what the results will be, and it won't change what we already know from that AM vs WM graph.

One last thing about the video making in general, it seems to me we would really need to see the same group do the same instance twice (one with and one without WM) to get the most accurate results. There's a lot of different variables to be considered.