has WM made trolling less fun for anyone else?

With celestial we were seeing that before WM. Pretty regularly my healing/damge would match, sometimes damage even higher

Or you could just tell him in a constructive way without being elitist.

Like this

Same with trolls also. Ill do 2.5 mil depending on last boss. (Im quantum)
Thats why i love WM imo i think its for support not for dps so much.

man already 11 pages long, well i'm sure it's been said but anyway, trolls do more than spam power, which is why WM was invented so we could do more than just stand there doing a fist pump every 2 seconds, take time do do some PI, debuf, maybe charge supercharger for an emergency. There are a lot of things a troll can do now in an alert that where only possible in raids where there was more than one.

... that's why all the support are talking about the damage they're doing with it?

The support benefit (using less power) is pretty /meh with power being in such low demand with everyone doing weapon combos constantly.

It's very much a DPS based system. Now, is it for the DPS role, not specifically, everyone can use the DPS benefits of it, but the only real benefit is that you do more damage with it.

From his previous posts I realized he is a troll and have nothing constructive for him.

Could you tell me when was CCing and debuffing exactly required in the same was as power restore? I've been playing for quite a long time now, and I don't remember time like that, unless it was before the game went F2P.

The problem with trolling is that now it's exactly the same as healing. You barely need to do anything, you just spam weapon combos and your job is done. Throw in PoT and debuff every now and then and that's it. It's extremely generic and boring. What we had might have been simplistic, but at least it was different.

What I found enjoyable was the fact that I had to do everything to be able to restore power to everyone. That means building up combo and using all kinds of little tricks. It kept you busy constantly, which made it fun and kind of challenging. Now on the other hand you end up just standing still and spamming weapon combo, just like EVERYONE else.

The thing is, anyone can switch to another role. If you don't like role X, switch to another role. Now thanks to WM, you're even more limited. Got bored of spamming weapon combos? Well, too bad. You can't switch to a role that is any different.

I'm not exactly trying to force you to do anything, my first post says it all: WM killed trolling for me. I wasn't asking them to change it back to what it was, I voiced my opinion. People replied to my post, and here we are. Also, as long as there's a tank, there is a pretty good chance that there's no need for trolls to spam CC. You can still debuff, but that's not enough for me. The role is too generic now.

Looking at the last few posts, I'd say you're closer to being a troll than he is.

Before.

While that may be true, it was even more boring prior to WM. At least now you have the freedom to do other things, even if those other things aren't necessary because the content is too easy.

What tricks did you need to do tap tap hold (clip with power dump)? Building a combo up wasn't necessary when you're just bouncing power dumps off the other troll. There are numerous vids of Odyssey and other groups doing exactly this.

Healers and Trollers were basically doing the same thing prior to WM. What you do as a troller now is largely up to you. If having that 'freedom' doesn't sit well with you I can't help. Ultimately, many of the 'support roles' vary in their necessity based on the competence of the group and the gear of the group. That's why 1 or 0 tanks are often employed. It's just the way it is because of bad balancing or lack of scaling of difficulty.

Again, this varies in difficulty. When the content is hard the tank is turtling and drawing aggro. When it's not, they are replaced by a DPS (lol). In theory the troller should be CCing while the tank draws aggro. The reality is there will be overlap depending on the content. I think there could be better separation of the two. Tanks really shouldn't be CCing as much as they do now, imho.

Ideally, the tanks should be doing less turtling and just drawing aggro but less CCing. Debuffing and CCing should be a trollers job, it says it in the description. Perhaps restricting tanks to pulling or pushing but not knockdowns or stuns would be enough to separate the two.

No. No, sir, it's not.

Oh god stop the madness first people complain that troll is too hard to do now they are complaining it is too easy jesus christ it is better today then it has ever been and if you don't like it start doing what a troll is supposed to do PoT, Recharge, Debuff, Buff Group, DoT. Just put out damage as a troll

2 DPS in PI (Paradise Island) Alert still drive me crazy (and probably the healer). Fools run it like it is GoT …

I am also a little disappointed that 'doing damage' still really isn't that important as a controller. I see DPS putting out close to 900K each in PI alert and even with WM + bonus' on nearly every PoT or Debuff I rarely get much more than 300K at 103CR.

For Controller damage to matter it will need to be about 50% of a DPS, not 33%. If not you are better off just letting the DPS spam.

Frankly, a controller should be able to do 50-65% of DPS … and eliminate all this 2 DPS nonsense. It only stresses out the rest of the group. Tanks and Healers should be doing 33-50% of DPS.

When 3 support roles barely add up to half of a DPS I think it doesn't matter. The 3, played well, should equal a DPS.

Lol . Is this a joke? Controlling was never meant to be about spamming defib. Now I can go into the t6 Alert and keep everyone's power up, debuff enemies for everyone, stun enemies, and by the time we get out I can easily finish the alert with over 2mil in damage out now. Its a good time to be a controller for those who know how to play the role.

You were able to do the same things before, the difference is that it was more challenging. It kept you busy, which made it fun.

Let's see, there's a home turf mod that allows you to restore your own power when you use your movement ability, there's sodas, there's supplies, there's accomplice and so on. No wonder you think trolling is better now, if you don't even know the basics.

Pure power bouncing didn't necessarily work, unless of course you're talking about three troll raid runs.

As a healer you barely need to do anything, especially if there's a tank. Not only that but you lose health by taking damage, not by using powers. The restore idea behind it might be same, but they most certainly didn't work the same way. As healer you have insane amount of free time, which means you ended up spamming weapon combos. Now trolls are doing the exact same thing. That's why the WM update killed it for me. It used to be a nice little change of pace to healing, tanking and damage dealing.

In theory sure, in your opinion sure, but it also works better the way it currently is. If you don't count in the fact that they killed trolling.

Should and should, but the game has clearly evolved into a completely different direction. Also, pulling is still technically CC. You are controlling the "crowd" by moving them around. You'd have to take everything away from tanks, which would also destroy the role.

Wasn't meant to, but it evolved into spamming power restore, which made it different and interesting. Now you can go into raids and alerts and be just like everyone else. Spam weapon combos like no tomorrow. It's wonderful when everything's so generic.

You were able to do that before too, you should had to know how to play the role. The role has been dumbed-down to a level where anyone can do it. It might sound wonderful, but it also means it's extremely boring after you learn how to play.

Tip of the day: if you want to deal damage, there's a role called "damage". Try it out sometime.

Also, the damage doesn't matter? You do realize every tiny bit of damage you deal will help? And just in case you forgot: the sole purpose of the damage role is to deal damage. They should easily deal A LOT more damage than you while you're in support role. Same way as you should be able to restore way more power/health in troll/healer role. I know it's hard to understand, but every role has a purpose.

No it wouldn't. A tanks job is to taunt. It's to keep enemy attention on the Tank. That is what they are designed for. Now Tanks should be cycling through their powers efficiently to stay alive, block when necessary, take advantage of the combat counter mechanics (which makes them more active than just blocking), and make sure their taunts are up.

Removing a Tanks ability to control NPCs would not destroy the role because it doesn't interfere with their ability to actually taunt. Whether or not they can psychically pull doesn't matter because if the NPC is taunted, a majority of the time the NPC moves toward the tank on it's own. Even if it doesn't it's still looking at the tank.

If you remove a Tank's ability to control in that situation, the Controller's importance increases because now they can actually control as they are designed to do (which is why they have larger power pools than a tank), and it's clearly their job (even in the name), by pulling or pushing targets into a herd. That will require brain power and positioning on the controllers which makes the role even more challenging/fun. Especially in content where there are no controlling objectives to continue to defeat a boss.

Tanks can only knock down, knock back, juggle, and pull. Ice can encase and root. A majority of Tank powers do not produce an actual stun effect already and do not keep targets controlled for 15+ seconds with the exception of Ice' encasements. Which break after several hits anyway.

Tanks should not be able to control. The only reason they can is because of Tunso stated at the beginning it would allow them to keep NPCs on their back so the tank doesn't take high damage. That obviously conflicts with the design of the Controller role. Which they have stated are suppose to control. So they need to seriously take another look at Tanks. Controller powers result in real longer duration stuns and can control 2 to 8 targets. Their larger power pool lets them continue to control and they can regen power to continue to use it. So tanks don't need to keep targets on their back because the controllers can do it and there are usually 2 of them which covers more ground.

So you remove the "fun" for a tank to CC. Not role breaking. Tanks are limited in their power bar. They have other "fun" & important things to worry about that are part of the fundamentals of tanking. Taunting is their main job. So is absorbing damage, using their powers to live, and now combat mechanic focus. That's the facts when we look it. So it doesn't really bother me because them being able to control conflicts with the Controller role design & purpose. That is the truth. If any tank believes this will seriously hurt their ability to taunt, I think they need to restudy their role.

POT-tap tap tap-defib-tap-defib-tap tap-defib-defib-defib-tap-defib etc. was never interesting or fun. I'll take weapon mastery thank you.

1) I welcome you to leave the condescension at the door. We can have a discussion without you being a smart *** about it.

2) The larger point is either it is about doing damage or it isn't (WM).

If it is then it should matter as part of the formula. If support roles combined can not do as much damage as a single DPS player then, no, the damage they do is relatively trivial. Further, it breeds contempt towards them even trying. It is a fact, it happens. It degrades into 'know your role and just tank/heal/dump." Your closing, if snarky, statement more or less underscores that.

The only way any other role will be valued beyond "barmaid" at the DPS feeding trough is by making the contribution significant enough to matter in addition to the support. I am not saying they need to be the same as DPS. Not even remotely. But the ratio needs to be adjusted, in my view. Presently every support player could play 100% of the ability with WM and I doubt it would shave 2 minutes off PI versus them not bothering with WM. Thus, non-factor.

Like or not the developers are on a 'everyone likes to do damage' parade and celebrating how great it is to be involved in combat… but the update didn't really close the gap. It's an illusion. So, again, it is either about damage, or it isn't. The ratio remains the same as before … trolls have some power to waste on "cotton ball" attacks (which would have been a more effective use of power by DPS spam) and healers and tanks can waddle on like they always have, changing nothing.

I want to make sure that everyone knows the distinction between CC for tanks and CC for controllers. Tanks are there to taunt AND to manage the mob. They have multi-target pullss and AoE juggles. They have little by way of stunning.

Controllers, OTOH, have single-target pulls and fantastic stuns that a tank could never achieve. A good controller lets the tank organize the mob before hitting their powerful CC. It's teamwork and knowing one's role compared to who keeps interfering w/ the other.

If there were only new content that let this happen …