Work in Progress: Combat Balance

It is mostly used in combos for Celestial and HL and weapon combos. You have to hit buttons in sequence to pull off a move. Some are taps, some are holds.

Any charged attack will have a loading bar.

Ohhhh yea I've never played DW in my life so I didn't know they had that.

EDIT: Oh, thanks Tikkun. Never played Celestial

I see this and while yes it is a difference in time for each combo set, the change of .5 seconds per rotation gives indications on what exactly you are doing. I've always been a fan and proponent of HL but left after it became JC super clip spam fest. Immersion wise a GL/YL doesn't fight that way, their constructs inspire their particular emotion. Gameplay wise it looked awful. You could never tell what someone was doing and how to counter it, you might as well have been standing still and hit an i win button. I've never decried the skill necessary to do that, but only the fact that there was no timing equivalent (hopefully WM will be that) to make it so it wasn't all about actions per second.

Other weapons like staff and HB are sort of the same. With most charge attacks the attack wont execute until you let go of the hold button. Other weapons like MA will automatically perform the attack when you have held the button down for a sufficient amount of time.

...is unfortunately a necessary part of designing an online multiplayer game.

If someone were doing that in PVP you lunge them as it involves range attacks. The people who bring that kind of PVE rotation into PVP get smashed as the answer for counter to all of it is pretty much "lunge".

I think the part were Spytle says jump canceling was never intended as a clipping mechanic should be enough to make you happy they aren't planning on removing it entirely.

Regardless of the changes made... Most players who are highly competitive dps's.... Looking at you kaiser, OC, wonder, newbie, mydpsisbetter, will still find a way to out dps the others. That will not change. We will probably find it out first and be the best at it... This is why I don't understand some of the responses against jump cancels. Especially since it's only a few powers we jump cancel. While some are essential... It's really qq-ers rejoicing in the fact that changes will be made. In the end, it won't change much.

It's not like any change will be a magical 'good sauce' they can put on top of their controllers. I know that sounds harsh and I don't mean it to be, only truthful. That's why I don't understand why others are so against jump cancelling to begin with. The conversation has drifted into other ways but fact remains, some players will be better than others regardless of the changes. That's why I think it is a moot point to debate it any longer.

the after seems quite reasonable tbh

Ikr.. It was basically an exploit...

Not without jump-canceling it first, no.

@Spytle

I think it is fair of me to say, the majority wants balance. I support anything you guys are trying to do to achieve balance. I know nothing is perfect, and I do not expect perfect balance out of these changes, as nothing is perfect. However, I do believe this is a huge step in the right direction. The only people fighting you on these changes, are those who do not want balance. They want that separation of the player base to remain between the "casual" and "hardcore". They only want suites them and their "good" groups needs. They are simply too selfish to understand that this is for the better of the game, in the long run. Change is necessary.

This is why I for one, am happy you guys are looking into these matters with this balance pass and weapon mastery. I am extremely excited for these changes, and especially, this balance pass. I sincerely believe that you guys should make all animations that are jump canceled that are flagged utility powers, stop working if they are jump canceled. For example, if you play Bane in legends, and use his venom shout, if it is jump canceled the damage stops. It does not continue on. Since all animations will be 1 to 1.2 seconds with these changes, that is not a ton of time to stand around. There is no reason jump canceling should be allowed to aide in front loading damage. If people absolutely need to cancel to avoid imminent death, they can do so at the cost of their damage, and also place a delay on any utility power being used after the jump for 1 to 1.2 seconds. However, due to the clipping hierarchy, anyone would still be able to use a beneficial power in that time frame.

I strongly feel that would go a long way towards balancing combat. I do not feel it would slow it down, as you guys never intended jump canceling to work in this manner. I strongly support what you guys are doing here. I am for change, change was needed to this combat system yesterday, in favor of balance. Just remember, you can't please everyone on here. Do not let the nay sayers sway your judgement on what it is you and your team are trying to accomplish here. Keep up the great work.

Edited:

I shortened it a bit, to prevent off topic discussion.

All I actually cared about was how much easier it was for the troll to keep him powered in the after version. I'm actually looking forward to play my gadget in troll role as well now since I can actually try to dish out some damage in between my recharges.

i like how you state that if a person is fine with the changes they must be a qqer. nice outlook

they didnt remove jumpcanceling thus phantom stays

I am curious how many people who are fine with it were able to perform it at the level guys like Kaiser were. I'd really venture a guess that it'd be 0.

^^^ Just read that his Phantom triangle was going bye, bye.

Find me one player who left the game due to jump cancelling.

While I somewhat agree with you, I still think 0.5 is too long. You should still be able see what he's doing with 0.3. The video shows the fan for quite some time (ps: thank you for the visual).

lol some of you are just having a ball with that term, aren't you?

EDIT: too long*** not too short xD

Please don't forget to think about what impact this jump cancelling adjustment has on legends pvp.
Characters like Robin, Bane or Saint Walker greatly depend on fast JCing to get off their burst damage.

For me especially playing SW is so much fun because I can clip and jump cancel with his number 1 very quickly (same with Lex, Bane etc.).
Be careful that you don't slow down the game too much, this would also remove some skill needed to get off the best combos.

Also this would probably create further imbalance between characters. For example Robin or Arkillo would be even weaker than they are at the moment. I know it weakens stronger characters like Bane, Lex, or 2face aswell (which is good in general) but this should not be done by lowering fun and importance of skill.

(please excuse my English I am not a native speaker )