Dear DCUO Community, I wanted to start this thread to express my opinions on past DLC’s and their impact. I also hope to get the opinions of others while providing the developers with some general feedback for the future. I’ve noticed that War of the Light Part 1 (WOTL1) has created a divide between the DCUO community. Not taking digital subcultures into account and obviously simplifying the groups, one group feels that the content provides minimal to no challenge while the other group feels that the challenge is just right. I’m sure both groups agree that the amount of content provided in the DLC could have been greater. Before I discuss the necessity of WOTL1, I’d like to take some time to discuss the impact that Origin Crisis (OC) had on the community. OC was a DLC rich in content. It provided solo, alert, and raid content. The raid content provided a challenge for some of the server’s more competitive leagues and was a wake up call to the rest of the community that they needed to “step up their game”. Unfortunately, the message was not well received. The raid content in OC led to leagues breaking apart, a minimal amount of people completing the raids, numerous complaints, and many people walking away from the game. This created the necessity for WOTL1. The gear in WOTL1 is better than the gear that drops from the OC raids while arguably being much easier to attain. This has begun to heal the rift between the content and the less competitive players. Some leagues have even grown since the release of WOTL1. This has also presented a problem. The challenge that many of the competitive players craved and enjoyed was eliminated. The pendulum swung the other way. While some individuals rejoice with this change, I’d like to experience a more balanced DCUO. I’d like to experience a DCUO that provides the right amount of challenge for everyone. I would recommend keeping the difficulty level of raids and alerts equivalent to WOTL1 while significantly increasing the difficulty level of solo and duo content. Difficult solo content would provide a challenge that is not based on the performance of individuals other than the solo player. I wouldn't mind a solo challenge where I fight a Wonder Woman capable of "one-shot-ing" me if I don't do the right move. Finding a really skilled partner for difficult duo content would also be much easier that finding 7 more skilled players for difficult raid content. Such a structure would provide individual challenge while making group content less disruptive to leagues. Such a structure might also lead to the formation of leagues based on social interactions rather than the need to complete content in a specific amount of time. These social interactions have the potential to increase the amount of time individuals spend in game. I don’t consider these ideas the keys to “fixing” the game. All online games are in a constant state of flux. I do consider these ideas a step in the right direction and welcome the sharing of any feedback, similar, or different ideas. Lets keep it constructive and keep DCUO going strong. Dark Babylon
This is an interesting idea, I also mentioned it in another (hard/easy) thread on the topic. I would like to hear what the Devs think about it. In terms of the player base, the major down side is people may be unable to complete the content..period. - Players can't be helped (carried), so they need to wait until they can over-gear. - the instances would exclude roles and cater to DPS... The major upside is that is the ultimate pure challenge. You need to learn the strategies. - Players can be excluded by each other based on stats or community biases. I love the idea and would welcome it ... my preference is to solo as much content as I can. This notion reminds me of "iconic anomalies" However, in the long run I think it's a bad for player retention.
TK, I agree. It would be similar to iconic anomalies. I also agree that a game that focuses solely on difficult individual content might lead to a reduction in player retention. Do you think that making all raids with a novice, intermediate, and expert difficulty level, while keeping the rewards the same, would remedy that? I'm also interested in what the developers think. Dark Babylon
Zezimar, I a going to try to my best to answer your question. Do I find the content of WOTL1 to be difficult for my league? Not at all. We clear it with relative ease. Do I find it difficult for myself? Yes, I am unable to clear it without the assistance of at least 4 other league members. Do I consider that the content in WOTL1 has some difficulty? Yes, all content has some difficulty. The difficulty level can range from low to high difficulty. Content with low difficulty can be completed with relative ease while content with high difficulty takes significantly more work. While we could call the range "ease level" that is not necessarily consistent with gamer vernacular. Most gamers tend to use the term "difficulty level" when describing content. Now, you highlighted this portion of my post "I would recommend keeping the difficulty level of raids and alerts equivalent to WOTL1" and followed it up with "Oh because you consider that the content of WOTL1 has some difficulty ? The answer to that specific question would be no. No, I did not recommend keeping the difficulty level of future raids the same as WOTL1 because I consider it has some difficulty. I outlined why I made this recommendation in the rest of my post. I hope this answers your question. If you have any more please feel free to post or send me a private message. Drak Babylon P.S. I also recognize that you could have been attempting to make a sarcastic comment. If that is the case, I ask that you evaluate if such a comment is productive within this thread.
My ideal method for difficulty levels: Normal and novice raids for marks, plus minor-stat boost or non-stat boost rewards The best gear in vendors (gives the highest possible CR when fully modded via the best plans). I think the Devs are sticking to their guns ... raids are the hardest and drop the best gear. The latest CR is achievable over 2 or 3 DLCs, so some people are playing catch up... you've just gotta enjoy the game and trust them. The way they do it makes sense when you look at the 3 T5 DLCs... It allows new players to catch up to veteran players. This feeling of success for someone new is critical to emotional investment - which leads to player retention. Honestly, no one on the forum can make the best call about this difficulty level topic - we are just opinions and preferences. We don't have the stats... What players fail at, what they play the most.... etc etc. The Devs can factor in what is said, however I would hope that they have actual numbers. If the OC raids had 10% success rate 2 months after release (speculation), then they would use that kind of stat to determine if there is actual problem. Particularly, if they are also loosing population, not selling DLCs or players aren't even bothering to play the raids.
Well it is a multiplayer game afterall and I wouldn't be playing it if it were a single player game. I am guessing we have 8 mans because of limitations of playstation 3 but else I actually like to see larger raid groups. The other side of that is there are casual gamers and pure comic book fans playing just for the DC name. So sure the game should focus on story, roleplaying and what not too.
I don't know. As I've also said before, I don't think most people really do want a challenge, despite how many people apparently have come out of the woodwork to claim to have loved OC. Having harder solos and duos wouldn't help, because people would still find a way to exclude others. I'm honestly not concerned about getting harder content because people that actually do want a challenge can find a way to create the challenge themselves.
This is exactly correct and it proves that the people asking for a 'hard' challenge really want 'exclusive rewards'. The goal being the satisfaction of accomplishment and bragging rights. The issues arise when those rewards allow players to exclude each other which is what happens with gear. It then takes a couple DLCs to get players even again. It will be interesting to see what is done with skill points, because they are based on experience. If a reward system was added into the mix that could be helpful... For example, you have a one-size fits all raid, but it includes feat that drops a reward. For example, doing the raid with 5 people, with lower CR gear or the typical feats (Epic Odyssey) switched to include a reward with the Skill points.
I was under the impression that the new roll outs of DLCs will release solo and small group content initially, and end with high level raids. I support this idea if that's still the plan. However, I'm still unhappy that there is no Lantern-related solo content, but that's understandable since SoT was small-group-oriented and WotL1 is following the above-mentioned pattern. They also mentioned that T5 was released kind of backwards, with Raids being released early, although that too was necessary at the time. I expect for T6 we'll see challenges and duos initially and in more frequency (yay!) followed by 4-mans and ending in the 8-mans, with each group size instance gearing players up for the next size, much like how the T5 battle suit was required for the T5 raid, rather than as a reward for the raid. Anyway, thought that was the new plan the devs were working with.
Dear Dark, First off, very good post. All your points were made in an excellent way and also very respectful, something that is not common to see nowadays. I am going to explain my current situation so you know where I am coming from. I have almost always been premium, and I think I am a competent player, but this still means that I usually get every new pack of content 1/2 months late, because I only have a couple hours a day to play since I work and all. Legendary players, on the other hand, get to play these new instances on day 1. So what do I find when I get there? That people have grinded marks to extenuation, abused replays, geared up and have now set a standard to enter the instances that would have been an EXCEPTION when they came out. Stuff as 95 for Trigon (can be stomped at 90), or the same for BIA (did it at 86). This is merely a bother until we get to the thing that almost made me quit the game: instance hijacking. Some will argue that "this cannot be done", but what I saw through OC was that a section of the players were demanding a level of performance for both raids that could only be achieved when you got to the very top (before WOTL). And how could I progress to that level, if the elements of progression (gear and marks) could not be attained? And trying to form my own groups for that raid was almost impossible: I´d get called a noob on chat for asking cr´s of 93-95 for Nexus, or people that came into my group would immediately tell me to raise the requirement- or even try to kick me out of the raid I started! What this felt like, was that the people who got to play this part of the game first, took the ball to their court and would not let others like me play. Funny thing is, AFTER the raids were nerfed, the CR requirements I see on chat have not decreased, not even a bit. My point is- for people like me, the challenge is not the problem. The elitist, arrogant section of the community is. WOTL is enjoyable enough, and A&B is a raid that I love because it can be done as long as people pay attention to what´s happening on screen, meaning that an average-geared group can do better than a l33t one if they are more aware of the mechanics. Regarding future DLC´s, I´m ok with increased challenge.... as long as the devs figure a way to prevent raid hijackings again like OC. Perhaps reintroducing the Novice/Expert raid levels, so that H4RDC00R3 players can still get their fix. My point is that the DLC´s didn´t create a division. The community itself did. But... enough of my rant. This is my oppinion only and in no way do I mean to present it as the truth. Good day everyone!
I think the OP makes a valid point here. The problem with Para & Nexus was that if only one person isn't at least a "good" player, the raid will most likely fail, p.e. in nexus when the player who has the 2nd shield doesn't pay attention and doesn't get to the tank in time, the tank dies and the raid will most likely fail. I think there are a lot of leagues who just don't have 8 good (or better) players online at just the same time. So needing 8 good players to complete nexus & para probably hurt them a lot. Therefore, I agree that extreme levels of difficulty should be restricted to alerts.
I like the idea of difficulty levels on raids as well (Novice/Normal/Expert) I do think they did it wrong the last time around though with the early raids dropping different loot. I would have the same item level loot drops in each version of the raid but change the amount of drops per boss, for example Novice gets the standard 1 drop per boss, Normal gets 2 drops per boss and Expert gets 2 drops and a guaranteed expert plan per boss as well. Now this will mean people may gear faster but only depending on their skill level and once they get all the gear they still have incentive to run the expert mode for the plans, which they can use or sell essentially farming raids for cash long after they have collected all the gear drops they needed.
