Movement Power PvP Debuff Changes - Update

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Mepps, Jul 10, 2013.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Hi all,

    As you know, currently on PC Test there are changes to movement mode powers that allow anyone to debuff roles in PvP. Details and our intent behind the changes can be found here.

    We have been reading and discussing your concerns on the topic and want to thank everyone for providing constructive feedback. After taking it into account, we want to clarify some points of confusion and explain additional changes we are making in response to your concerns.

    PvP Is Complex

    However, to start, it needs to be noted that the PvP system as a whole is complex, essentially because of how different each of the roles work and perform. In our system, those differences are taken into account across the board and especially in how PvP debuffs work. Many of the examples used when debating these changes have not taken the whole system into account, instead microscoping in on a specific power/instance/situation/comparison and unfairly comparing one to another. It is imperative that the whole system and the roles' differences are also included in the discussion.

    (We are open to feedback on PvP role balance on the whole, but that's perhaps another discussion.)

    With that said, let's look at the details and our plans.

    Changes To Reinforce Roles

    Many of you are concerned that these changes will negatively impact your ability to play as your preferred role, favoring DPS and forcing you to play DPS to be competitive. You noted that DPS can debuff all roles, but cannot be debuffed, and you noted a scenario where debuffs were working inconsistently and favoring being DPS. We think you are making several wrong assumptions without testing the changes - primarily that you will be debuffed all the time - but agree the discrepancies should be addressed. We will make the following changes:
    • Debuff durations from the movement mode powers will be reduced to 6 seconds
      • (Debuff durations from role powers will remain at 12 seconds)
    With this change, the natural role debuffs remain demonstrably superior to the movement mode debuffs, encouraging players to remain in their role for the purposes of debuffing. Obviously, movement mode debuffs will have to be applied twice as often. But also, remaining in your role has numerous benefits that have been largely ignored.

    When in role, any power debuffs, so you can continue to strategically play without sacrificing time to cast a specific power just for the debuff. When in DPS, you must use that one specific power, which must not get interrupted, which doesn't necessarily have additional benefits you want to use, and must be used twice as often. When in DPS, you must give up at least one slot on your loadout to be able to debuff at all.
    • A discrepancy where Ice Tanks may have been better off in DPS stance has been corrected so that debuffs will function the same for both role and dps
      • Ice Powers: Absorption gained in DPS stance from Reflection, Winter Ward, and Shatter Restraints is now removed by Healer super powers as well as the movement mode abilities Throwing Knives, Cyclone Push, and Swoop Attack.
    This resolves inconsistency between how tanks were affected by debuffs and prevent Ice Tanks potentially tanking better in DPS. We also carefully considered the way debuffs and role differences work for the other roles, and are confident that other situations do not exist for Healers or Controllers, where they might heal or control better in DPS stance.

    Keep The Feedback Coming - And Test With Us

    We feel these changes make it clear that roles are not invalidated by these new ways to debuff, and that instead there will be greater opportunity for tactics in normal and competitive play, as well as hope for victory for those who find themselves currently matched against opposite roles without means to debuff.

    That said, there has been woefully little testing done on the PC Test server, and we understand it is difficult to assemble enough people to do group vs. group testing. In light of that, we are inviting all Legendary PC players to join us tomorrow, Thursday, July 11, at 3:00 p.m. Pacific to help us test these changes. The Dev Team will be available on the PC Test server to chat and watch your matches directly, so that we can all see the effects of these changes first hand. Create heroes and join us in the Watchtower!

    Please consider the changes, test with us, and let us know what you think.
    • Like x 17
    Mepps, Jul 10, 2013
    #1 Last edited by Mepps, Jul 10, 2013

  2. Brice Allen Loyal Player

    I will sadly not be around at that time but I hope that enough people log on to get some sufficient testing done. I love this game and devote a lot of time to it but each evening between the hours of 6PM-9PM EST it is family time. Breaking that routine for DCUO will incur the wrath of the wife. No bueno. lol
    • Like x 1
    Brice Allen, Jul 10, 2013
    #2

  3. MARK2099 New Player

    I have no idea why most are afraid (most probably already know ;) i just don't want to say it), when they do not realize just like others can debuff them, they also can debuff the rest, this gonna change loadouts from players and they have to sacrifice slots in loadouts in order to access to all of them, those debuffs not going to replace support roles ever, this is the right step to balanced arenas.

    And before anyone think something else, i have 4 toons and i play the 4 roles, this is a welcome change to me, this gonna force me to adjust loadouts, modding in different ways, i'm not afraid to be debuffed because just like others can debuff me i'm gonna be able to do the same.
    • Like x 2
    MARK2099, Jul 10, 2013
    #3 Last edited by MARK2099, Jul 10, 2013

  4. Kordana New Player

    Has this been changed recently? I haven't been a healer in a little while now, but when I used to pvp as a sorc healer, condemn was the only power it had that would debuff a tank. Is this not the case anymore?
    Kordana, Jul 10, 2013
    #4

  5. StillCheckmate Committed Player

    condemn, karmic backlash, vengeance, shared fate all debuff. So does final ruin but it's pointless to spec into as a healer.
    • Like x 1
    StillCheckmate, Jul 10, 2013
    #5

  6. thelostczarnian New Player

    the reason is they are use to having easy mode vs trolls and dpsers. this will change all of that in a hurry
    • Like x 2
    thelostczarnian, Jul 10, 2013
    #6

  7. Kiro Justice New Player

    Wait...Us Trolls are viable in PvP again because of this?! Thank you Mepps!!! Thank you so much! I kiss the ground you walk on!!
    • Like x 3
    Kiro Justice, Jul 10, 2013
    #7

  8. xoCiaraxo New Player

    It's
    LOL lets see how long the " DPS debuff workouts" I'm not scared though DPS try me (;
    xoCiaraxo, Jul 10, 2013
    #8

  9. Kiro Justice New Player

    Bad troller? Well...Obviously I'm new to this game, only just learning Trolls >Healers>Tanks>Trolls so...Yeah, this community though. You guys are great. Seriously...Feel bad about yourself.
    Kiro Justice, Jul 10, 2013
    #9

  10. Itazuki New Player

    Really?

    Trollers were always viable when played by decent players.
    • Like x 1
    Itazuki, Jul 10, 2013
    #10

  11. Giggles Loyal Player

    Nice changes. I personally preferred everyone having equal debuffs as far as duration goes, but I can deal with this. Thanks devs love the update. Sadly I won't be available at that time, work and all. Just please don't scarp this idea, it is great for PvP, the ones who do not like GU28 are those that are afraid of the thought having to adjust their load outs and strategies because others will be doing it and better.
    Giggles, Jul 10, 2013
    #11 Last edited by Giggles, Jul 10, 2013

  12. Chungweishan New Player

    PvP is complex. Don't make it more complex. All this time wasted figuring out which movement-debuff works balanced enough with or against every role, in every different team-setup, the synergy with other powers. And I got to rely on the very few PC Legendary Testers who all but forgotten what it's like being a brand new player with cash-gear, barely know how to string together a combo, not sure about their loadout, less than 50 skillpoints, and a soder extreme? While there are brilliant players on the PS3-side that will figure out amazing tactics no one thought of before during testing..... Recipe for disaster.

    Are you going to change the cast times and cooldowns for every movement power? Swoop is faster than Cyclone Push when I want to debuff a Tank, but Downdraft is slower than Zip Tie Attack against Healers. So a Flight Healer can just swoop me into oblivion, while I attempt/fail a Downdraft.

    How will this affect the game when new gear (armor, mods, and consumables) comes out with way higher stats? I read there's a flat -400 Restoration (don't know if it's true) if you debuff a Healer. Eventually 400 Restoration will be nothing just like Iconic Power Intimidating Gaze's +25 Dominance is worthless. Or even worse, what would be the Burst Damage when four Damage-Role players in Season 2 max-gear (or PvE-T6 DPS Gear Glass Cannon) blasts a debuffed Healer all at once?
    • Like x 2
    Chungweishan, Jul 10, 2013
    #12 Last edited by Chungweishan, Jul 10, 2013

  13. Volaron New Player

    I'm fine with this. As long as we still get the debuffs. =) and as for the testing with the devs i'll be there :cool:
    Volaron, Jul 10, 2013
    #13

  14. Volaron New Player

    Unless facing tanks, or healers of equal skill in 1v1.
    Volaron, Jul 10, 2013
    #14

  15. Amarsir Well-Known Player

    You guys have really screwed up a lot of things in pvp this year . . .

    but this is good. Anything that moves play toward skill and choices and away from turf supplies or expert mods and matchup luck - that's a good thing.
    Amarsir, Jul 10, 2013
    #15

  16. Ice Knight Well-Known Player


    So why is that Healers can remove Ice Dps shields but Tanks cant remove Troller Dps shields ?
    Ice Knight, Jul 10, 2013
    #16

  17. Itazuki New Player

    Tanks? Trollers are meant to lose. Whether you put up a fight or not is of your own making.

    Healers? Before HT it was very easy to beat a Healer as a Controller, after HT it was still possible yet much harder, granted.

    What's funny about all of this is them saying they want to use these changes partly to speed up competitive PvP. Yet the reason it was slowed down was from them adding Immunities and HT in the first place. So instead of fixing that stuff you bring in a whole new aspect to it. It's like adding layers of tape on a hole each time the previous layer starts peeling back. You know... instead of fixing it...
    • Like x 4
    Itazuki, Jul 10, 2013
    #17

  18. Itazuki New Player

    They should all be able to remove the role DPS shields. If it isn't working that would be a bug I think.
    Itazuki, Jul 10, 2013
    #18

  19. Ice Knight Well-Known Player


    Its been like this ever since they nerfed tank rebuffs to cleanse healer debuffs , I have been posting it on forums and sending pms to devs but nothing ever got fixed or ever get a response from the green names here.
    Ice Knight, Jul 10, 2013
    #19

  20. Yallander Loyal Player

    Good luck to all who participate.
    • Like x 2
    Yallander, Jul 10, 2013
    #20
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