Vit Problems...

Seeing all of the new increases in terms of gear, extra SP innates, and a whole slew of other things that may further expand our stats thresholds will soon bring up a problem with Vitalization....

This problem was actually discussed in detail in the old forums some time ago, which was referring to the point where controllers will essentially have too much VIT.

As it stands right now, controllers can obtain an unbuffed VIT score of about 1370 tops. To put that in perspective....

---A "Naked" controller - one with no gear equipped/no SP used, rocks 350 base VIT. Controller bonus.
---10 VIT = 1% power generation increase.
---PoT = 70 base + VIT/14
---Power Dump (split to 3 people) = 100 Base + VIT/10 per person.
---Power Dump costs 300 power to use.

What this means is at about 2000 VIT, two trolls can do an infinite power dump echo. They can both simply repeatedly hit power dumps because they will use 300 power to create 900 power split over 3 people - one of those 3 being the other troll, giving him 300 power to use to also dump, etc.

The scary part is this happens with 2000 VIT without casting a PoT, buff sodas, crits, or trinket boosts. Factor all of those in, an infinite power dump can happen at far less than 2000 VIT.

Judging that right now BEFORE DLC7 and U25, max VIT is about 1370. The SP update should add 60 to that roughly....landing us at about 1430 after U25 provided thats the only VIT-related thing that happens in U25. The fact T5 armor is SUBSTANTIALLY better than Tier 4, possible V mods, new trinkets, soders, etc...
The infinite power dumping might be a very real possibility. Tier 5 compared to Tier 4 is estimated to be around a 260 Vit difference.

This means that basically, controllers will be able to generate so much power that a raid group couldnt even use it all if they tried. It is actually nearing that point now with the max base at 1370.

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Every other stat in the game is matched by stronger adds. They hit harder, more defense, more HP, etc. DPS, healers, and tanks are all taken care of. Trolls on the other hand....their challenge is FIXED VALUES which are the power costs of player abilities within their group. This means that regardless of a controller's VIT, they will consistently be met with the same challenge - however much power the other 7 players use.

Because all other stats have values that increase with them other than VIT....when is this going to be addressed? Or how?

i wonder if this will then make solo trolling and or healing for the end-game raids so that there will be now 4 - 5 dps, 1 tank, 1 heal, 1 troll... just like how we saw the end of the 2 per role raid groups... hmmm...

I wouldn't really call this a problem. I'd be perfectly happy if I could solo troll a raid with nothing but power over time. I see plenty of people cry because they don't want to be a battery(please choose another role), this could allow you to be a battery while still doing other things.

Most likely, the raids will be set up so that only one troll is necessary, and the adds will need some major tanking and damage to even be beaten.

Let's say we have a Luther Drone, and he hits for 4500 on his weakest attack, that would mean that only the tank and maybe a shielded support role could live it, that would increase tha value of a second tank, to hold these ads and keep them from slaughtering every one else.

This whole thing will totally ruin the gameplay. I mean more existing to run a bg with 2healers,and 2trolls. Yea, more faster with 5dps, but kinda boring.

I've read this several times now, but at this point it is only an assumption - T5 content may very well feature a counter mechanic which causes power issues (through draining or blocking of powers), just like the Eye Drones in IS - we will have to wait and see.

Additionally, an enemies health and damage capacity are indirect counters to a Controller - we may see T5 enemies being so difficult that Healers must heal more, Damagers must use more power - causing Controllers to work harder at keeping power up.

This would be a fix. Right now, that is the only thing in the game that does attack your power bar.

This is no assumption though. Every single point used to point out this issue are fundamental facts used by every troll.


To gain a better perspective of the problem, look back on the old T2 raids when they reigned supreme. Groups would die a slow, painful death to bosses by a slow drain on the groups overall power. All the clip-heavy DPS that roam around now couldnt even dream to play that way then, because the Vit thresholds were so much lower. You never see this in raids anymore. With some trolls, you can have 3 DPS that literally never use their weapon....and they will be powered.

Long story short, if you think trolling is easy currently, stand by.....

If infinite power its the problem then a really power wasteful dps and healer are the solution and will T5 gear make prime like FOS 3 easy lol!

They have already uped the "good" count on weapons from 6 to 10 example pistols I'm not much a fan for it because at abt every 6 count its was a good point where i hit recharge but now that u can clip weapon moves "mostly" its not that hard to reach a 10 count. I would imangine the could do this with all weapons

The thing is....DPS and healers can only use so much power. Many powersets do not have rotations that consume more power than they already do. You do have clipping, but once again....fixed power costs, power cooldowns, etc. Theres still limits, and I am sure T5 trollers will exceed those limits easily.

This wont attack the problem though.

This would help, until the point where you can generate power wihout ever using your weapon. At 16-1700 base Vit, trinks, soders, etc...Its likely possible to generate all your power strictly off power echos and PoT.

T5 should land us there.

In T5 raids, A LOT will be required by the Trollers. That is my guess right now. Along with the insane power dump, they'll be required to spam the debuffs and other cc abilities to keep the group save. I am assuming that t5 bosses might have health regen abilities which will require the trollers to use their debuffing abilities a lot more. Even at 1370 vit, I don't think any troller could spam the debuffs + keep the blue bars of healers and dpses even halfway full + use their other cc abilities. Also I am assuming that along with the dpses the trollers will be required to dish out some dps aswell to help the dpses because of insanely hard difficulty of the bosses. So I think the trollers should be happy because with so much base Vit, they'll be able to use a variety of controlling abilities along with the power dumping. I think trolling was getting really boring because at present with vit around 1300, we don't have the luxury to use our other cc abilities. So in future with Vit reaching 2000, we'll be able to use a whole lot of other abilities instead of just dumping power.

Sent from my droid.

I realize that the increase in vit from t5 is substantial, but doing some preliminary maths now, i seriously doubt that t5 will get us to the point of infinite power. Here,s why:

My maximum damaging rotation with elec uses around 1000 power per sec. Yep, you read that right -1000 power per sec. Same deal with hard light. If you were to abuse phase dodge clipping for the other powersets, you'd be getting to around that as well, but HL and elec can get there without it. Gagets is nearly as gluttonous with power for maximum damage.

I'll do some more precise number cruching once i get home, but as you can see, i doubt even full t5 will be able to fully feed power to 3the dps doing maximum damage, much less healers who can theoreticaaly use up to 2000 power per sec (elec ones atleast) if the content neccessktates it

...or trollers have to do more CCing and DPSing or shielding to keep the group alive. Trollers have more than 3 powers on their loadout. It would enable trollers to intensify the use of the other 3 powers and increase their own poweruse.

Being a controller I do not see the problem here. Would this not able us to do more than just dump power? Now we might be able to actually control mobs, use debuffs without being afraid of draining our own power, using another sc instead of wop or sd. I just feel this would free up the controllers from being one thing and one thing only. Not to mention that none of us know how hard the new content will be and maybe we will need all that extra power. Please correct me if I am missing something other than other roles not being able to do what we now can with all this vit.

I dont want to be moving batery anymore. I want to be ccing troller. And to be ccing troller need that t5 boost of vit for sure.

I realy like to see normal t5 mob have some buff like def buff,dmg buff and some other buff. This sure make troller work like crazy with new t5 gear. =)

interesting a dps going on about trollers having to much vit, while you're at it why not complain about healers having to much resto. Ihave 2370 resto right now on my healer an see crits for 8000+, only fire tanks have that amount of health so add the 294 resto from the new inates an my healer will be more op no? More vit means trollers can debuff an CC more XD instead of power dumping, they don't even have to spec into the vit inates if they want.

True, true true and true.

Who complains about having too much power, doing too much dps, healers over healing, & tanks holding aggro...i swear everyone in this game just wants everything nerfed. The origin crisis saga should just wipe every1's stats & force them to start over at T1 gear...lol...every1 wants to get geared to be OP & then they want to QQ about being OP.

A great example of this is sorcery...clownbox came...every1 was on the bandwagon...then every1 cried OP...then came the nerf hammer ruining transmute...now sorcery is the worst dps powerset.

What fix do u think the dev's will do to/for the Trollers...doubt it will be favorable for the community...Every1 wants to continue the evolution of their character by boosting stats with new gear...they will prob just double the power costs for dps powers & there is your fix with community outrage