Can we talk about the controller role honestly?!

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Well, arts that buff the group are mostly restricted to trolls. You have dps arts that buff just yourself like solar, ebon, trans, piper, scepter, strat, etc., but those that grant health are support roles only and other boosters are troll specific like claw, amulet, bop, grimbor, parasite, tetra, etc. Trolls only seem important for two reasons: giving power to poorly specced players and buffing up everyone else’s stats.

I used to have 5 controllers back in the day and after the rewamp I have zero.I always hated the "new way" to control.I miss double pot (power over time) time and not just a buffer/debuffer.

Here's what I don't understand about the community and Tetra/Cog: the more players wearing them the bigger the buff. So why isn't every dps wearing the one that aligns with their combat stylem?

Is it really because "EVERYONE" does more damage instead of "I" do more damage?

Tetra & Cog isn't just a buff troller art. The more of them equipped in the instance, the better the buff. Right?

I'm just going to put this out there: Most of the DPSes I've run with only care about squeezing every last bit of damage out of their rotation. They ignore mechanics, they ignore indicators of an incoming one-shot, they ignore when other players go down. In the new alert, they ignore when a player gets turned into a tree and the rest of the group is prompted to turn the cog to undo it.

Make like a tree and leaf!! Oh wait… lol

Nope. Unfortunately, they don't work that way, bud, and they never have (unless there was a temp bug at some point). This was a bit annoying in the earlier days of artifacts when options were limited. Well said, though, that they really aren't controller arts by design; the corresponding troll are is Rings of Az. The sweet spot of having a tetra/cog dps imho is having one with high health and constantly casting powers or constantly comboing inside the effect windows. One of each may not be so bad, either, and as we know, as things stand... swapping is are option. The obvious part is, particularly without swapping, these arts grow less and less valuable as the number of buffed players goes down, so 8-players is optimal.

With so much pugging out there (uncertainty about who will have what arts) and many players committed having no more than 3 artifacts per role, I have a tough time suggesting any type of selfishness is involved by damagers who haven't spent on tetra and cog. Our experiences may greatly differ, and 2 separate things can be true, though. I suppose without regular, organized raid and bounty groups, handing them off may be a reasonable call. *shrug*

So, to kind of drag this thread back on-topic (and so I don't have to create a new thread), what kind of Controller is preferable these days? It sounds like power battery is out, but what about buff? Debuff? Some combination of buff/debuff? Hybrid of buff/debuff/battery?

My Mental toon is nearly ready to start using as a troll, but I don't want to spec as something nobody wants in their group. Art swapping is not an option, but I'm really curious about what (other than swapping) other players are looking for in a troll?

LOL Okay, we get you, great troll supreme We'll try. I haven't eaten yet, so sorry but the sweet spot is almost always to squeeze out the most burn you can with the resources available, and in this context, services rendered by support roles are resources. A lot of players pug like their life depends on it; how does one tune for dozens of potential trolls' capabilities and philosophies? This is just my opinion, but the excitement of playing with multiple different partners comes with the responsibility of protecting oneself. In this case, I'd suggest all parties have multiple armories, buff colas, a tempered ego, and as a last resort, the grace to excuse oneself before the blame game starts if something goes awry.

Note: That said... lol If I was puggin in any role and the troll had everything covered but one spammer, it'd be pretty obvs to me what was happening.

The $1,000,000 question, and as a less than enthusiastic runner with randoms and a less frequent troll lately, I'll defer to wiser minds. My only 2 cents to offer is consider squading up if possible and adapt to the needs in your circle. I know that's not a thing for everyone, so forgive me for the non-answer please. I am also curious, so good question

Since I can spec to be mana-sustainable, I would look for a troll that can provide relevant buffs and can add some cherries to the scorecard. Nothing crazy like. I like a mix of items such as amulet for them debuffs, claw for buffs, and then let the 3rd be your choice.

Debuff always regardless of the Buff vs. Power debate. The responses to this thread alone should tell you that many of us will differ in opinion. Personally, I will run Rao 100% of the time just to spread the debuff to the largest amount of targets while using the smallest amount of power. "I" also like BOP because it throws all 3 debuffs in one shot. Combined with Rao it covers a lot of territory. These are both my neutral favorites.

Edit: I also believe that BOP keeps you from interfering with Tank immunities.

You probably didn't have to play troll to think that way, because the troll role is the most abandoned role when it comes to instances with less than 8 players, raid instances are practically the only place where trolls can do their jobs with world bosses, there are some that will say alerts too, but for the most part players don't want to play with trolls in alerts.

The only real problem with trolls at the moment is with boost artefacts, where the troll has to choose between power players and precision players, and often it's the power players that get pushed aside because the devs are doing everything they can to ensure that the power category is neglected, and often power players will be mocked because they can't hold a precise player, but the latter forget that the troll has chosen them, except for power players, who are favoured by the devs...

That is exactly why. That's part of the macro picture. Trolls shouldn't be the only " buffer" in the group. I have never seen a DPS run that art, it's more of a DPS comp mentality. That synergy exists yet is completely ignored. I always said the DPS hijacked the controller role and I've watched it play out in real time. It's too DPS heavy, that was a part of my original point. The troll is expected to sacrifice his preferred play style to buff and help the group, but the DPS can do the exact same thing ( in th examples you gave) .... The controller role needs a hard look by the Devs. The responses here confirm it. I miss the Dom trolls days, others have mentioned the days of the double tick pots etc. The troll is take it or leave it at this point. I liked the idea of troll specific mechanics and my idea of including the trolls actual contribution to the scoreboard; would surely help. A healer heals, a tanks job is soak up damage and any extra they put out is a bonus. The troll is all over the place. It's not clearly defined anymore like it has been in the past what they actually should be doing. It can be very group specific, which means a troll could have 3 different controller pve builds, and the artifacts could differ, as could the allies. I remember when the themysicra alert came out and I used to " Troll tank" because I had a Dom spec and I could stun the entire map and on the bosses I'd just run my shields and supercharge and just block lol.... Controller used to be really fun, now it just seems like a shell of it's former self.

Dead on! Dpsuo.

The only ones to blame are controllers themselves. The prima donna, crybaby class of DCUO.

Go back to the archives and read the countless posts about 'we're not batteries' 'we're not ____' 'we're more than _____' posts over the years. The devs listened to your crying, and this is what you are now - irrelevant.

We're not just batteries - ok here, now buff. You're now not needed to give power. And to buff, live in your inventory. That will give you lots to do!

Even the buffs are negligible and not necessary. So the one thing ya'll could provide, you basically talked yourselves out of. Kudos!

Like tanking I think theres a steeper curve to getting a handle on controlling but if you do its easy to excel.
Like tanking there really isn't a way to gage if you're controller through any kind of number/scorecard. The idea of a back up troll went away years ago so its not like you have anyone to compare to in an instance. instead its felt while youre fighting. A good troll will make things run smoother and faster.

I like where the role is at but I've also been doing this long enough that all my arts are at 200 and I have enough skill points to cover everything.

If we want to make controllers "important" again they need to go back to controlling the power flow. a raid group shouldn't be able to go one minute into a raid without a controller giving power.

This makes me feel better. I got attacked for not giving power earlier today during the new elite raid.. I'm strictly a buff troll and this guy was always running out of power. I felt useless lmao..

Soooo to make them important we need to go back what, 9 years ago? Back when in an alert and someone gets ko’d, the group either tried to see how long they can last or simply wipe and try again. I’m not saying yay or nay, but is this what you are referring to? Each role stays within its role as Tank=Meatbag, Dps=Pewpew, Troll=Power (maybe cc? Lmao), and Healer=Heals.

Just ignore them. It’s not at all your fault that they can’t execute a build/rotation without draining their power bar. A dps doing that is similar to a glass cannon, not in health, but in terms of supply. They buy a crap load of equipment to go pew pew but forget to establish a supply line of shells to reload the equipment.

That is incorrect. They do not stack. Only one cog buff and one tetra buff can be active at any given time. If multiple players are running cog and/or tetra, the highest buff will be active and any others will be negated.