PVP Is Dead- Why Not Give PVP Feats For Free?

No matter what they do to 'fix' PvP, as soon as some a-hat speed hack enters the fight, it's still 'broken'. I'm not saying I know how to fix the speed hack problem, other than constant monitoring and a swift ban hammer, but they could re-balance, add some new cool maps, add some awesome Legends toons we'd all want, fix all the wonky existing Legends issues and 1 hacker can still make it 'suck'.

If the other platforms made up as much of the playerbase, or there was a switch to turn on for 'Playstation only' matchmaking in PvP, maybe it would be worth the fixing....but with the speedhack issue still in play on the PS/PC servers, I don't see PvP making a comeback anytime soon, regardless of what they do to 'fix' it.

Normally i would have energy to do this but I'm close to 800SP and doesn't really matter at this point but an easier avenue would be welcome.

It's a little misleading to say that the players couldn't agree with the changes that were put in. It definitely is true that players can't agree, I mean we get that with PvE even, but a lot of the changes that were added were because of some sort of initiative that the developers were implementing OR were directly related to changes in PvE.

After SOE2014, they were going to do a player feedback changes that resulted in... uh... lets say that is also when they stopped all development on PvP and the only changes since where related to either the stats revamp or they added a new map to go with the Suicide Squad Movie.

Right now, we have probably mostly newer developers that are afraid to touch the "legacy code". It's been 8 years since, it's pretty much dead, when the game is only 13 years old.

Edit: I want to mention, the 2014 changes were because they wanted to make the game eSport ready. There were some things that happened on the tournament stream that resulted in them wanting to change it. SOE was sold to Epstein and that also probably played a hand on them not returning to fixing after that halt they did. The selling was shorting after that change. Tunso left during that time, who was in charge of the combat systems.

All elements and pvp should just be obtainable without playing pvp. I'm sorry like you said it's dead. I agree. Pvp is dead. Legends is dead. No one should complain at players getting feats for a mode that basically doesn't exist anymore.

As a short answer, and from someone who spent the first 3 years grinding out pvp feats....NO. It was a huge effort to get those feats, and you don't deserve that for nothing.

Now, let's talk about pvp. There's a few things I think led to the downfall and need to be addressed to fix it.

1. GEAR/REWARDS. It made no sense to have a gear system in pvp. In fact, it's one of the main reasons players don't want to jump into it. Once the vets get full gear, a new player stands zero chance of a win. Only the hardcore feat chasers put in the effort of grinding losses to get the gear and feats. The devs even tried seasons, where gear was taken away each season and we started over. But noone wants effort taken away only to start over. It should have just been removed altogether. Pvp should be stripped down like legends pvp. Only our base powers, leave gear out of it. We have many things now that can be used for rewards such as styles, auras, materials, quarks, stabilizer fragments, nth metal, and ally favor. These things would be incentive for players. Also, add a win/loss tracker to our inspection screen. This will go a long way for bragging rights and competition outside of feats.

2. BALANCING ROLES AND THE ROCK PAPER SCISSORS DYNAMIC. Today, shields, heals, and defense/toughness rule the system. Certain powers and roles make it darn near impossible to knockout players. That is the biggest imbalance. The initial rock paper scissors approach leveled the field, and, mixed in strategic elements. IMO it needs to be brought back.

3. REVENUE. The devs have repeatedly stated they cannot make money on pvp. I think that's a cop out though. Since we now have artifacts and allies, why don't they make specific artifacts and allies only for pvp. It would bring it that same revenue, afterall, the scoreboard proves we have a competitive driven playerbase. Pvp should be no different. Also, having a healthy pvp system, keeps players engaged between episodes and more players playing is always better for revenue.

Overall, I would like to see a system where roles counter each other, and player power level is reduced to a low setting about the same as legends characters. Perhaps even remove shielding, stealth and supercharge options. Eliminate gear, work in different rewards, and add arts and allies to increase power levels, but not as extreme as pve.

To those that don't know what I mean by rock paper scissors...
Tanks did more damage to healers, healers did more damage to controllers and controllers did more damage to tanks. DPSs were kinda left out, so I would recommend a tweak to where DPSs would do more damage to other DPSs, but less to roles.

It's not just about the fact that they can't effectively monetize PvP though. You have to also consider that every second that you are PvPing and embracing that side of the game... you aren't buying replay badges. Their main source of consistent revenue. Sure... people might spend a good chunk of change on their first few arts... but I guarantee that way more of their income comes from replay badges over time.

So not only would they be unable to profit from it... they would be sacrificing a lot as well. Fixing PvP could be what kills this game, as sad as it is.

Or, incorporate that system into pvp. Allow players to do 1 of each type (1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 5v5, 8v8) per day and get full rewards. Then, unlock with replays to earn more each day.

Thats what The Last Laugh DLC was all about. And it was the biggest flop DCUO has ever seen. The community did not take kindly to resetting PvP.

I don't think the success, or lack of success of that dlc can be put on the replay badges. The dlc was a pvp centric dlc, and it completely turned off all of the pve players. As we see today, pve was always a bigger audience, so, cutting out over half the players for months isn't a wise business decision.

To that, if they make the changes I highlighted, they could include a pvp map every dlc going forward, based on the dlc it is released with. Expanding those maps can help generate participation. And, remember, I recommend a win/loss addition to our inspection screen. Having wins and losses count with or without replays will allow players to improve their status. There are plenty of games that show win/loss percentage is enough for competition.

I don't think a win/loss ratio record would work for this game. Nobody would pug any more. You'd only do pairs with your partner in crime. Only 4s and above with a very particular squad. The queues need love... not segregation.

You got that circle backwards. The role RPS was Healers were strong against Tanks, Tanks were strong against Controllers, and Controllers were strong against Healers. DPS were their own thing.

In essence, it was good on paper, but what resulted from this was 1v1 and 2v2 being a nightmare to random queue. Especially if you were a controller class. As much as the role bonus "debuf" worked, it was not able to overcome the power creep that was the gear at the time. So Healers were king, as they could overcome tanks and trolls. Tanks were 2nd, because they could smack around anyone that wasn't a healer. It was annoying at that time.

Personally, the most stable time period was before the Lair system was introduced. It did have some RPS to it, but it was stable and more balanced.

There's always going to be that aspect. Even in pve, players choose to run with leagues over PUGs for completion and feats. Unless someone is actively trying to sabotage someone else's win/loss, it's in everyone's interest to win.

But think about it now with gear. Players only stick with friends who have full gear. Anyone going in against them with zero gear have absolutely no chance of winning, even if they are good at pvp. Honestly, this is always going to be a factor in pvp, but it's the participation we need to increase overall, not just random ques. I think my suggestions would be far better than what we have today, and perhaps even better than the old glory days of pvp. I miss those days, I ran a pvp league. I started on a pvp only server. Yet, I won't play today because of the crazy imbalances. I've always been fire, and I could easily cheese as a fire tank still, but to me, that's not fair, and a win in this climate doesn't mean as much as it would if things were leveled out across the board.

It's been a long time, but I swear as fire it was healers I had a bonus to, but I'll accept it if I'm wrong. The scenario is the main point.

And yes, gear was always a problem. And 1v1, 2v2, are outliers in that scenario. Idk if it would be possible to drop the RPS in those scenarios, but keep it for 4s and up. Or, only allow dps for 1v1 and 2v2. Since there would be no gear, and power levels decreased, everyone could utilize a dps loadout

Sure, but only for the hardest content. For 90% of the game... absolute wrecking ball characters will be seen meshing with the bottom feeders simply because their interests intertwine. One might need a style... the other might be doing it for a first time clear.

The moment you attach any long term negative effect to that short lived relationship... these guys are not going to be working together again. The elitist isn't going to sacrifice his status to help strangers get a win. His willingness to help was probably limited to begin with... afterwards, it would be non-existent.

I hate to break it to you, but this isn't 2014 anymore. The whole point of the game getting older and progressing is to make it easier for newer players as well..which is why you can literally skip like 300+ crs as a level 4.
If DC never made any changes because of vets who grinded them, new players will never have anything. You know what your reward is for grinding those pvp feats all those years ago? You have had them to your advantage all this time.
Now a days? Nobody can get pvp feats anymore.
Newer players and players who have just always put those feats to the side...yeah good luck getting 5v5 safe house feats in 2023 or getting all those 8v8 hall of doom feats. It's impossible and shouldn't have vets trying to gate keep them

Same thing everyone needs feats for. Skill points

PvP and Stat clamp needs to go. PvP is nothing but toxic players, with no skill. Stat clamp was put in place for more profit (allies).

This is false. I managed to get them all in less than a month on Xbox, in which has a massively smaller population. Put groups together for it, create a custom chat channel for PvP feats for others seeking them to flock to, and maybe even use other accounts to help queue and you will get them all in no time. Takes effort, but that's what grindy feats are.

Keep in mind, however, this is not me saying anything against any of the suggestions in this post. I still believe the best course of action would be to allow the feats to be obtained via scrimmage.

Hate to tell you this, but I've made many characters in the last few years and have done pvp for feats. It's not impossible. Impossible would be the instances broken, or unavailable. No, it takes effort and spending time in lfg getting 16 people to simultaneously que for 8 mans, less for other arenas. It's very possible, yall just can't or dont want to put in the effort. Same goes for old bounties. I've single handedly started spam groups in old open worlds just by advertising in chat for a couple hours. This idea that if you can't blind que immediately means ya need feats GIVEN to ya is ludicrous.

Also, many of the pvp feats are styles from pvp, which can now be bought with source marks. The devs have already made those more accessible for ya and you're still asking for stuff free. Why even play the game at all, how bout we all just make a new character and have the devs grant us 800sp?!?