Devs:Stat clamp to old content is quite obtuse

Ok, I’m confused again. Nothing in this game outside of elite presents a challenge but you don’t run elites and want clamped normal stuff to kill you? You know previous to the clamp that you could be 300cr over in elite content and still die right? I think you missed out on how fun the elite content was pre clamp. Sounds like it was exactly what you wanted. As is now, I can stand in anything in normal and ignore mechanics. Not sure if it isn’t the same for you? Like end game adds are 2 taps, regular tsdr means fall asleep tapping a button and never block or move. Even if someone drops an orbital.

Here’s the issue. And don’t take this as a personal attack. 10+ is already generous enough. Anyone who actually runs EEG can and have shown that EEG is pretty much easy mode now. It’s basically like if they were event versions. It’s the less skilled players who will never be happy and will always keep calling for it to be made easier and easier until there’s no clamp. I’m sorry but if people are struggling that much than the issue is with them and not the content. The game shouldn’t continue to be made easier every time someone whines that they can’t beat something. No one earned any rights to trivialize content. Not me not you not anyone. There will always be someone worse. A while back someone even made a thread saying that event version should be the hardest thing in the game. If you or anyone can’t beat something than try to improve. Get a better loadout. Learn to block. Turn up the volume to hear instructions from NPCs. Turn on captions to read when an attack is coming.

It's actually not. The appropriate cr differential is Max CR over that oldest possible unclamped content, so like 40 CR or so.

Regardless, the devs are going in the right direction with y the changes Charon mentioned. Curious to test those out and see if they need to go further or not.

Bumping the CR will make FOS3 5 minute run even shorter. Pure chaos lol

Yeah... I outlined that in one of my posts. I'm aware that skill and common knowledge play an important part. My issue is others holding me back because of it. Again, it is not my job to teach anyone how to play this game and I shouldn't be penalized for it.

This isn't really teaching players anything from my experience, and it doesn't make much sense to me to have this clamp when players can literally gear up just as quick without even touching omnibus in solo open world story instances.

As for comparing the game to how it was, it's not like this was just something introduced a year or two ago. The game has always played this way up until now. There was always a mentality that you could get stronger, go back and attempt things again. Now progression has been severely dialed back, and it's pretty much pointless to run old content with omnibus. There's no fun factor in it any more for me either, and isn't that the purpose of playing a game? I just wish they would have separated the two. Leave the old way of queuing up untouched, and make omnibus and the clamp it's own separate entity with all of it's "perks".

Appropriate based on who? You? Cr is just a number. There are also stats piercing through. There are also artifacts that weren’t present back than. If you want to be by what’s “appropriate” for said content than maybe artifacts be ignored in older content. Maybe sp should be capped at the cap it was back than. Whether you want to admit it or not, the content in EEG is easier during the clamp than it was while it was the current EG.

I’m not saying you should. But the real issue is the other players abilities. Raising the Cr doesn’t change that. The only fix to to add actual tutorials to the game to show players how to do these things.

What is stopping you?

You threw out a number you thought was right. I threw out a number I think is right. Not everyone is going to agree about the direction of the game. Thankfully, Charon seems to be nudging things in the right direction with the proposed changes.

Like the one in the beginning of the game that everyone seemingly ignores? I heard they got rid of most of what it used to be to cater to players not knowing how to activate their movement modes... and yet this is asking too much? I think I read someone saying that an npc will complete it for you if you just stand there.

Maybe a better way would be to introduce new players to a solo version of alerts and raids. Clamp that, let them pick their role, and assign a team of NPC's based around whatever role they choose to play. That way they can test loadouts, powers, mechanics, anything that could possibly be needed to advance into end game content. They could base how they perform by aiming for certain parameters set by the Devs. Compare numbers, look for ways to improve, and see where they're at and where they need to be.

All while not hindering anyone else's progress.

Again, right for who? You? What makes you think this will be enough? And direction implies there is more. That is the issue. You and many like you will never be happy until it is removed. Nobody, including yourself, earned any rights to steamroll enemies or one shot bosses. The game is currently very easy. The only hard parts are mechanics and players ignoring mechanics. So what exactly will this do to fix people ignoring mechanics?

They can add anything and everything under the sun and players will still chose not to do them. Having a mandatory tutorial is the only way to show people what to do. Look at DPS. So many players have terrible loadouts and low damage output but this game has one of the best set ups to let people test loadouts. People have sparring targets and parsers. People can go out and pull a bunch of adds to test tanking and healing. And trolls can drain their power and see how long it takes to max it out. This game has everything you could need to test yet people still run around with rainbow augments and bad set ups. I once ran into a tank who had orb of arion and the claw artifact. Unless they add and actual tutorial that players have to do, no adjustments to the stats clamp will help.

Guess we'll agree to disagree.

This poster's, and much of Reinheld's entire point is that high CR allows you to ignore the other players in such a way that it does indeed, solve their issue. Proof here is that the issue didn't previously exist. Just as the clamp created the issue they experience, removing it would remove that issue.

You don't need to agree, but please don't act as if you don't understand what's being said.

So, here's the issue, and let me tell you how to feel about what I say, do not take it as a personal attack. Allow me to presume I know what you have and haven't tried. If you were me, you'd know it was easy! Allow me to assume you're less skilled. I'll now say sorry, without being at all sorry and just continuing with my point, but others should find things as easy as I do. Aside from the obvious time and effort put into progression, no one earned anything, ever. Not me, either. Someone once made a thread, it doesn't have relevance here, but I'm mentioning it. Also, improve.

I will now close by reminding you, that you are not me. But you should be. I assume that you don't have a good loadout, block or have captions.

Deity, you are trolling her hard. Take a step back from the issue. If you need to disclaim that something's not an attack -- it's an attack. If it wasn't, you wouldn't feel any need to mention it. You've made a lot of valuable suggestions and contributions to the community, this kind of thing ... maaaaan -- you are better than this.

You and I both know that the real solution is integrated tutorials. (correct me if I am wrong!) You've said it. I've said it. The rest of this is just a tug of war that no one is winning. We're all just digging in our heels and getting more muddy. It's ok to let go of the rope.

Not everyone knows how to use those tools though, especially someone brand new to the game/end game content. Literally just gave the best case scenario for a tutorial with a brand new player in mind. Something that could let them test various roles in combat scenarios, and not just on sparring targets or standing around spamming powers. It would only affect that player alone, and they could actively see what they're doing right or wrong without the pressure to keep up with other players. It would be a controlled environment set to their pace. It could also be made mandatory. They could force new cr skip toons through it unless the account already has end game level toons or some other deciding factor.

They could also have built in tips for players that are clearly struggling. Achieve a score this high at your role - do this to improve and here are the stats you need to work on. Score a little bit higher - this might help more. Achieve above a certain threshold, congratulations... you can now proceed to end game content.

That's it for me though, doesn't really matter what they do or don't do. I'm going to ignore the omnibus/clamp part of the game until they either revert it back or give us more options other than using it. Currently, it's just not fun and that's what matters most to me. Might test the new CR threshold, might not even bother with it. I'll wait to see feedback on it, I'm sure more threads will pop up shortly after.

The only thing raising CR does is make it so less able bodies are required to complete the content. Assuming you are not a very experienced battle tank/battle heal or the 'One troll army', that sweet spot right now seems to be 3 or 4 'normal' players....some runs more, a few less. The CR change might nudge that to 2 or 3. Long story short it will do nothing to improve players ...that guy squatting at the door or dropping in the first wave of adds won't improve with +5 more cr (probably with +50 honestly). The 'better' players that are already able to complete things will still be able to....just a bit easier. I'm all for it as it will make my runs faster, but yeah....a few more 'nudges' and we'll be back where we started...which I'm not going to complain about either, but I'm still not volunteering for any of the runs I've categorized under 'do not run' Omnis.

I don't think we'll ever see a proper tutorial added unless we get a big UI revamp. I have proposed a few times adding something like the 'Oblivion Bar' artifacts mission for each role that could be run and re-run maybe...not foolproof by any means but anything that would force someone to go into their power tree and actually READ what the powers do, then make a conscious decision to apply that power for an end goal would be better than what we have today. I can't even count how many times I've had a troll ask 'what's pot...what's CC?' or a tank ask what 'single target' means or how they'd do it.

I mean we had people that couldn't get off the ship enough that the intro mission had to be scrapped. I don't see them making it so you can't troll/heal/tank without doing a different mission. But one can dream.

Integrated tutorials or a tutorial menu, archived in options menu, able to be referenced multiple times. Throw those pop-up menus there too.

The reason I had to say it wasn’t a personal attack is because she has taken something I said previously as a personal attack when it wasn’t so I did want to clarify that what I said in no way directed towards her but as a general statement.

I do get the point of the the clamp not making things easier but the issue has always been there. Similar to players just standing at the entrance of duos where they can’t be kicked and people failing to follow mechanics in endgame. Is real issue has always been players not understanding how mechanics work or expecting everyone else to do those mechanics while also expecting the other players to support them in ignoring said mechanics. Preclamp these players were masked by everyone getting one shotted. However these players eventually reach endgame thinking that they are doing the right thing. This is a cycle I have been mentioning for a while.

For example.
New players joins game. Gets carried through content by people who steam roll adds and bosses.
Said player doesn’t learn what to do (especially new player to gaming in general) and eventually gets to endgame.
While in endgame player screws up because they don’t know what to do or how to do their role properly.
Endgame player gets mad and kicks and new player has a bad experience
New player will either stop playing group content all together, get lucky and find a helpful league, just pug, or quit.

If player stops playing group content than there is population issues in end game content.
If player finds a helpful league they can either only run with league or help others
If player just pugs they will stay in the cycle
If player leaves than again the game continues to have population issues

Unfortunately, the majority of players fall into the first group that doesn’t help or kicks. A clamped environment doesn’t help the endgame player from running with “noobs”. However it does somewhat force new players to at least do something instead of getting carried to endgame. But something we do agree on which you mentioned is that the game has to do a better job of showing players what to do.

There is only so much we can do to show players how to figure things out. I personally left my league recently and started a new league where I’ve been inviting the random players who need help. And when they join I tell them that they can stay for as long as they want and leave whenever they want. But there’s no replacing a good tutorial. I think of my favorite starts to a game was with blessed unleashed since it did do a good job of explaining the basics.

Not sure if this is true or not, but I was told that the original tutorial was removed because some couldn’t beat it. Some raids will always be a quick no because of the amount of teamwork that’s required. For example, when doing the Omni raids I avoid any raid that has the “2+ cogs have to be hit at the same time” mechanic. I’ve had trouble getting people to count to 3 lol. Some of these raids will just never been easy even with no clamp because of mechanics. And the devs have been doing everything possible to make them easier. Like adding big red text across your screen lol.

You get that difference (40+ CR) at endgame..it's not some random number...if you're max CR at endgame (the last 3 DLCs) you're +40 something CR above the minimum endgame CR

It should never be any less than that

If you have it at endgame, you should at the very least have it in older group content

They need to up the CR to the same difference between min endgame and max endgame in Duos, Alerts and Raids, get rid of the piercing garbage (waste of time), you get all your SP..stop wasting time adjusting instance by instance..unclamp the open worlds..and focus on content..because it's been lacking