Devs:Stat clamp to old content is quite obtuse

Ok....so I guess my feedback would be that ALL content is worse with Clamp+randoms. Easy list. I'm not running every run to make my decision as to where morons can't do basic tasks. If they are going to roll back enough of the clamp that EVERY group can complete things without major issues....just remove the clamp as it's not working as intended.

Honestly the 'getting off the ship' issue should never have been fixed. That move didn't lower the bar, it took the bar off the pole and laid it on the ground....hell, it buried it under the ground (you can actually do MOST of that mission AFK and allow the iconics deal with the adds). If that is a prime example of how they'd 'fix' the issues that might be reported it's a very bad one indeed. Maybe if you couldn't get off the ship, you shouldn't. I mean we still need civilians to save, right? All those players can be the 'metahuman hero's and such we save in the meta research wing or we de-omec on those missions.

This doesn't sound like a problem with the content, but the lack of wanting to communicate. Yes, big skull red text means bad, but heck, I've run new content with the DPS just tunnel visioning their silly little rotation and dying every skull. But when you stop attacking or don't engage to start to communicate on what to do. Often, either the other player notices or doesn't notice when you type. And going back to my point, you can either leave and requeue or kick and replace when someone doesn't want to listen on how to get through it.

I've been in random groups that the struggle was the mechanics and ultimately, I had to leave in hopes they would get a healer to help them. Which I reported and the instance was addressed.

Okay, that's fine. You have your timeframe of play time. That's yours and yours alone. No reason to give feedback.

I do have to ask, why not take a break? It seems like you are always struggling with clamped content because of random groups. It sounds like you, and the other person I'm replying to, are not having fun right now. Taking a break isn't a bad thing and helps with content burnout. Right now, Doom was a flop in my eyes and the Anniversary event is getting old (thank god it ends tomorrow). So even I have lessened my play time.

There is a major difference between when the content was new and now. When it was new (say DWF), everyone in that run was an 'endgame' player with at least enough experience to have, done levels 1-30, they had played a dozen other alerts and raids or they wouldn't have gotten the gear to get INTO the run. Along the way they had to have picked up some basics....block on skull, roll out of AOE, do pickups...and they likely had at least HEARD of the tasks that roles do...even if they never dabbled themselves. It was unavoidable even with the least attentive player. And no one would every have thought to try running a role without proper gear or SP loadout. There were no artis to have 'wrong' or augments or anything other than CR and SP. You had them...or you didn't. So the absolute worst pug group back then at least had some experience with general gameplay and for sure had gear that allowed them to get where they were entering....and they had to earn that gear to some extent. Were there carries? Sure. But a carry in a purely pug group would usually end with a kick vote, or the group was made up with the carry in mind (league or friend run). The 'current' runs were also the only place to get new marks and gear....so there was incentive to complete a run or you would not progress.

Cut to now, you can use a CR Skip, or even without a skip, you can run event runs that teach you nothing, or just glom onto OW groups where you stand in a corner collecting loot. You can spam FOS3 or Funhouse all day, never setting foot in another piece of content...there is very little to learn in there....very little need to see what a role does or how they do it. There are 'wrong' artis if you are playing a role or even for DPSing (and yes....having wrong or none is counted into the equation). So this doesn't just mean explaining to 'pass the Omega beam' or 'don't break out of the stun' in a DWF run....which yes...also had to be explained back in the day...it means having to explain what POT is, or why you'd need white mods (which if you are fresh off the skip, you don't have the marks for yet) in your gear. It means having to explain the difference between HOT and priority heal to someone who queued healer but has no healer gear. And now that the gear we get in DWF is the same as we get in DD raid or FOS3 or the WV solo, we have no additional incentive to try and finish a 'difficult' raid. Of course there are feats to be had, but we aren't talking about organized feat runs here. Everyone agrees a put together endgame group can do any reg run in the game with ease compared to when it was new.

So no....the content is not worse than originally ran...it's 100% easier...you know....except for all those other people in the group.

Level skipping came out before CR Differential and Monthly content came out. (I think it was near the end of T5 early T6?)

Players allocating their skill points wrong. Having the wrong loadouts. Using the wrong gear mods. And so on. Is nothing new. I'd argue, EEG, none of that matters much aside from a good loadout allocation.

But it's okay, you don't want to spend your time running content that seems futile. That's fine. But the problems you are experiencing is NOT the clamp fault, but non skilled players.

No need for a break. I don't really struggle...I avoid it or I leave. That's my point. Why would I be concerned with reporting issues in BBS when I'd never run BBS again? There is NOTHING for me in that run that I can't get elsewhere....so why would I run it? At best it's slow and obnoxious...at worst it's a fail factory, and there are a few dozen just like it. Putting pay in ALL content means we are mercenaries now....why would anyone do a job that takes 10x as long and get paid the same? I'm only in there for the pay.....100 bucks an hour is better than 10 bucks an hour (no matter what my boss says). I'll gain no additional satisfaction from beating content I beat long ago when it was harder and new, and I'm not there to teach or help anyone unless I'm building a group to do so. Sorry, but this is the design....I didn't make it, but I'm sure as heck going to take advantage of it.

Yes I've had a few struggle runs...mostly where I pop in on last boss and it would be worth the struggle to get out on a 'short' run but sometimes do (against my better judgment) accept a 'bad' run I'll try sticking with....that's on me...I should know better. 90% of the time I opt out of anything where there is ANY chance of other people messing up...and I actually do run a LOT of Omni runs (3 solos, 1 alert and 1 raid on about 7-10 toons)....I'm just more selective in what I run for the time factor. Honestly if I can I get a group of 8 together and run Omni raid without the randoms (allows for selective acceptance of what pops too) when I can and almost NEVER queue into omni alerts anymore...built group only + a few opt outs makes for quick n' easy pay.

As far as burnout, I know how to avoid it. I don't replay...I don't spam....I normally drop to just OW weeklies after a period of time (been running only the 3 days of 'beast' mission, the shadow golems and 2 raids since week 1 of the anti event). If I'm not burning out, I run on alts...if I am burning out, those alts suffer in the new content and instead just get their omni boxes for the week, or get a 'bounty' rotation in the T5-T6 bounties to pile up some marks. Or I have a few old 'count' or 'checklist' feats that I still need (dang 'rouges round robin'....curse you) I'll throw a run at. I've got an alt account that still needs bottle duos....sometimes I'll knock a few of those out if I'm sick of the new stuff (walk in of course).

Or yeah....I watch some TV or run something else. Just finished Ozark and Reacher....but I gotta admit, I had the PC up running a few omni solos while I did on the 2nd TV.

The problem isn't the clamp, it's the players who continue to revel in their incompetence failing to undertake the basics.

When Paradox came out....there were no 'unskilled' players in there. Less skilled....sure. When the first skips came out (2017's anti event I believe), it didn't get you to endgame content but like 50 below, and there were no easy paths to get there....between that CR 100 skip and endgame you needed to run 'real' content to get marks to buy gear or get appropriate drops for that CR, then move to the next set of content as the scaling gear had a cap. Now scaling gear in everything goes to 290, which a full set of which puts you at endgame CR, and you can get that running and re-running 1 piece of content all day. Yes, you can have 'stats' that are appropriate running in the clamped content, but you don't have to have any knowledge of how to play or any experience doing so.

Sorry....it's not the same, not even close. The clamp just facilitates the gathering of the skilled and unskilled whereas the unskilled would be left out when the same content was new. So no, 'bad players' is not the clamps fault, but running into them more often, is.

Paradox... the raid that had an exploitable door glitch that was console only? I think that was a bad example.

There was a CR 75 skip I think before the 100 one. There was a skip to 30 as well.

And actually, you are right, they aren't the same. The CR skip now includes an artifact cache with enough Nth metal to get an artifact to 80, but the skill problem is the same then and now. The difference is the amount of content we have. Which is the reason why the clamp happened in the first place. For new players to be able to run the old content.

But I digress, I'll bail. I'm not going to keep posting here. I'm going to wait until the Elite EEG gets implemented and I'll start posting in clamp threads again.

100% correct....but it's the clamp that puts us with them now....or at least puts us with them that we'd notice. I'm sure they were there before, but pre clamp they couldn't make MY run fail or take 10x long as I solo finish it when they all die.

I believe the first skip was 100...or at least the first one that was 'granted' (I'd never have bought one). And glitches don't matter. To walk into Paradox you needed to be CR 84. You could not get to CR 84 while the content was new unless you were running other near current content. Glitch/no glitch if your cr was 70, you weren't in Dox till you ran Gates and Prime or the HOF raids to get drops or get loot to buy your way there. And again I know (and said) I understand there have always been 'carries', but back in the day if a group chose to carry you...it was their choice. The people providing the carry now are the DBG team, and I don't remember seeing Mepps, Oceans or Charon in any of my runs so they are doing it in absentia.

But yeah...we are off track. Agree to disagree. I'd say I'll see you out there, but unless you are in FOS3/DD/Necro/Prime/Escape...or current content....I probably won't.

Im actually glad theyre changing EEG elite content, it was the one area i was sympathetic towards and I totally get it.

As for EEG normal content, if your character is well built or you take a friend it's not generally a struggle unless theres a hard mechanic in there making you entirely rely on others

Ive only left a few instances since the clamp came out and it was always, always the other players, not an issue with the content itself, I left because in that particular moment I couldn't be bothered putting up with try after try.

In the polar opposite as well, I ran a paradox just last week, I tried to drag them through an EO a few times, despite the fact all other players in there were not capable, instead of leaving I sat in there, closed 3 tunnels, left one open and then helped them finish.

People do really need to know when to walk away if it's affecting their passion to play or causing massive frustration in the moment instead of persisting in banging their head against the wall and blaming the content after.

The other thing I'd seriously suggest people do is set up an EEG armory that is a battle build balanced with shields, survivability and damage output.

Don't just expect to do everything either as pure support or as a glass cannon in DPS, that isn't always the answer or the best course

This, I shouldn't be at a new/unskilled players mercy when trying to use this system as intended. Especially on content I've beaten years ago, and was able to do solo a few months prior. It doesn't seem to be making any significant changes to new player's skill level. There are also way too many ways to bypass it anyway. It isn't fun for me at all to not only be responsible to teach the new players I'm stuck with the basics of how to play, but to also rely on them grasping it and applying it right then and there for any hope of completion. That or back out and roll the dice again.

Not true.

It isn't the clamp that puts you with bad players, you were always put with bad players the only difference is that before you could ignore then, destroy the content without them while dragging them along obliviously.

The clamp restricts your ability to do that either partially or entirely, this clamp then exposes those bad players for the bad players they are whereas the game previously hid it

There are also veteran players who don't want to adapt.

I can solo most stuff in this game, some I wouldn't bother simply because of the time it would take stemming from the fact it's designed to be group content, although it's technically possible.

This is because ive created a battle build specifically for EEG or for that matter its even capable of battle tanking even end game content.

The game changed, I adapted to suit, perhaps some of you would be more happier if you did the same rather than incessantly resisting change.

A) I said, yes...they might have been there, but not that we'd notice while we were OP.
B) I have adapted....I don't run old content where bad players can keep me there longer than I want to be, or leave as soon as I can tell it's going to be 'one of those runs'. (minus a few lapses in judgment...shame on me)
C) I can and have soloed many of the raids since clamp...I can solo almost 100% of the alerts if I wanted....problem is it's not worth the time, so why do it? Now I can't do it on a troll toon, or some healers, but on my tank toons...yeah, if I wanted.

And how does 'hero' saving the run do anything for those other players? They 'learning' anything? They having a better experience standing outside the door for 20 min, vs when they would have stood stunned as you 'one shot' the bosses? So what does it accomplish other than give you the good feels? And how is that any different than the accusations that people wanted to OP through stuff because they wanted to 'show off' their massive burn and OPness? Cause we heard a lot of that pre clamp. You 'showing off'...in there? I wouldn't say so....but hey, I didn't say so pre-clamp either.

People can be obtuse. Actions can't. "Obtuse" means

Only people can be obtuse. Decisions don't have agency; only people do.

It doesn't seem to matter how many reasonable changes they make in regards to this Stat clamp situation anymore, the usual suspects who keep screaming the loudest and making as many different titled threads as possible on the same subject, will STILL be here whining until they completely remove the Stat clamp all together.

Unreasonable people shouldn't be catered to, they simply have to adapt.

Itll eventually die out as a issue, they will be a small shrinking population of those fighting against the clamp to see it removed. Once the clamp was implemented any new player coming to the game wont understand nor care about the "clamp" issue the veteran players have.

Eventually the complaints will go silent in due time....

Seen about 4 of these "Clamping" threads, each thread getting less traction then the previous one.

Despite what you assert, the bulk of players I run omnibus with arent dead, standing at the door doing nothing, you'd have a point if that were true, but it simply isn't actually the case.

The people are almost certainly participating and as a result learning a whole heap more from the experience than they would have pre-clamp.

It's absolutely crazy how people are resisting a system that forces players to sink or swim when it was exactly that system that taught us vets how to play in the first place.

The irony of it all is that we want to complain how useless the players are but at the same time don't want to have the systems in place that more forcibly teach them simply because it inconveniences us.

Also you talk about reward vs time but are omitting the fact when you previously ran unclamped it might have been unclamped and quick but you got virtually no reward.

That's the thing too, this might not be you Reinheld, because I'm going to err away from assuming your motives, but why does it matter how quick you can run something if you're getting no reward?

It seems to me there's two trains of thought, as ive said in the past, that this comes back too.

Feats, marks and speed.

People want effortless feats
People want super fast content with no resistence
People want marks. (By people I mean anti clampers only)

I think in reality theres a group of players secretly hoping to get the clamp removed while retaining open marks and loot forgetting the fact entirely that time and difficulty is exactly the reason why we now have open marks and no loot locks.

The mere fact you're arguing to go back to the previous system which was for those reasons demonstrably worse for the player base is frankly baffling and astonishing.

If you think the clamp would ever be removed while retaining those lighter restrictions then with respect, you're being delusional.