Stat clamp is going to ruin DCUO- Please reconsider making this go live

From your original post on the subject. I'll paste it here so you don't have to scroll up.

And as for your “they should make it optional” point. Fine if they make it optional than no rewards should be given in the non clamped version. No marks no gear no feats. You still get your optional instance but if you want any kind of reward you have to go to the clamped version.

Please re-read what you wrote and I responded to....and highlighted...and said was the funny part. I'm sorry If i interpreted 'no marks, no gear, no feats' as meaning we'd get no marks no gear and no feats...or that 'if you want any kind of reward you have to go to the clamped version' as meaning just that...no reward if unclamped. There I go being accurate again. Whoopsies.

And they actually did state an original purpose in the livestream and on the original announcement here. It was to make the content accessible and relevant to all players, to remove caps so all content would 'pay' for running it (above and beyond what you get running today). I realize the only way to do that is to add some sort of clamp, and a clamp will by default make some things harder. But the 'goal' was not 'man...feats are too easy and we made them to be hard....so we are making them hard again'. If the devs designed the feats or content to always be as hard as it is day one or even day 90-120 when a DLC is normally at the end of it's 'current' life, the constantly repeated axiom of 'you can always come back to it later if it's too hard now', would never have been repeated (and it's been repeated many times). If they were concerned that much about this phenomenon (overburning to get feats later) why do they keep adding feats that are beatable mainly by overburning? Speed feats, no death feats...'don't let a boss do X thing' would have gone the way of the past a long time ago and we'd only have things like "Masters of Madness" in JLD or 'is something burning' feat in DM. Those are things that can't be overburned...although good burn helps of course.

And you obviously missed the main result of my lunch story. I compromised and was left with a bad taste in my mouth. Foreshadowing? We'll see.

This is exactly what’s going on, the feedback is coming from a handful of people that want the clamp. What would be nice Is for the dev’s to send an in-game mail explaining what is the clamp and a simple yes or no for it… And can use that as a vote from the whole (everyone) community and see what everyone really want. This way no one has the disadvantage from those that own a computer to test with… (Since there’s no PS testing)

You couldn’t quoted the whole thing where I said they could drop gear but no marks or feats? Guess that would give to much context?

The clamp IS going to happen whether you want it to or not. That’s not what is being tested. What’s being tested is the range of the clamp that is being implemented. So a yes no vote won’t accomplish anything. The test server is nothing new. When a new dlc comes it goes on test first. If there are changes it goes on test first. If players want to have input they can go to test and give feedback. But they don’t want to. They just want to say no without even testing.

Dude...those are your exact words. The rest of the post was not about 'if an option was given', or running unclamped. But to give it the context you want....here:

I'm not sure how that makes it different than the original snipped bit (still highlighted), but I don't want to be accused of mis quoting. Now if you are referring to one of the other 100 posts you have on the subject, please point to it but make sure you refer to this line as well....as THAT is what I replied to in THIS post.

Your suggetion...here...is that if an option was given, no rewards...period. Please point out where that's out of context or mis-quoting.

See a better response would have been, "yeah, I mis-typed there...I meant no marks, no feats, but still get gear" or something if that's what you were pitching. I'd still dis-agree, but at least the run would not be complete nonsense and would indeed be SOME kind of compromise. Although you did double down with the 'if you want any kind of reward...' part. So mis-typing seems less likely.

Actually I apologize. I did suggest an instance with gear but no feats or marks. I thought it was in that post or before that post. So I made a mistake. For that I do apologize.

Some of you are desperately saying "optional" when its been clear from the first, optional stat clamping was never a option even offered.

So how do you preserve the experience for the players who want it, with no ability to choose clamped, or unclamped?

I was one of the most anti-clamp proponents on this forum, scroll through the history of stat clamping and you'll see that, solowing and I have had all but physical blows in the past (solowing side note if you're reading, I expect you to play more after this update I've seen your CR and SP you've been slacking, still )

I've actually tested a bit of this stuff and admittedly I think there will be issues with "some content", probably most likely elite content and there will without a doubt have to be tweaking in that content, post launch to find a difficulty that best suits retaining the contents challenge while allowing a player to feel like they're meaningfully progressing if any issues persist and I'd encourage you to give feedback post launch

It is important to give feedback then also because it simply isn't realistic to test it all during the test phase, it also isn't realistic to expect the people on test to go through such a vast range of content.

With that being said if I'm convinced this isn't the death knell of DCUO and possibly a positive move, being one of the biggest opponents of stat clamps to the extent where I'm actually feel encouraged and eagerly awaiting the update then perhaps, just perhaps the rest of the knee-jerk reactions going on here on the forums might just be an over-reaction.

For those wanting an optional stat clamp, that simply isn't going to happen, despite the fact I think options are always a good thing, when I was opposed to stat clamping I always argued it from opposing it from a mandatory perspective because it was only ever going to be mandatory, especially in this particular game. They simply don't want to split their community between those running clamped and those running un-clamped when their goal is to improve queue times, it would literally have the opposite effect.

Huh. While not an exact match for what I said less than 24 hours ago, I think it's close enough for me to be able to say "called it."

Knowing how parts of this playerbase can act, it wouldn't take long before someone somewhere started bemoaning the fact of how "unfair" it is that players who run the clamped version get Source Marks.

Now, as for that statement? Before they announced the clamping, people would try to make the case that they should get full rewards (including Marks) for running content that they had long since outgrown and that offered no challenge. No one ever put forth an argument that convinced me that putting in a fraction of the effort was worthy of being fully rewarded. Ever.

So now you're trying to make the case that if (by some miracle) they allow a nonclamped option, those players who choose to run unclamped should get the same rewards as those who are actually putting in some effort running the clamped content.

*sigh*

Rewards should reflect the actual amount of effort you put in. If a nonclamped player isn't willing to put in the same time or effort as a clamped player, it's tough to think they have either earned or deserve the same rewards as the clamped players. If they really want to play the game by the current rules, they should be willing to take the rewards given under the current rules. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think they (and I agree) that they are of the opinion it would be better IF it were offered. Wishful thinking at this point, and yes, it's not coming this update, but guess what...Up till that update, there is no clamp....but then there will be. Just like after the clamp is in for a while, maybe they will re-***** and an option could be put in. As proven by the coming clamp and membership changes...they can change things. There is no rule saying they can't change things again, or even reverse certain changes if things don't work out. I guarantee that if given an option we'd have had much less disagreement on the subject all-around.

I never said non stat clampers should get the full rewards as the stat clamper.I said we should get source marks ect.. but not the same amount as stat clampers.

I get that stat clampers wil have it harder so they should be awarded as such.

My point is 90% of the player base already have almost everything from old content.We already ran those raids ect when it was relevant to us 10 years ago.

My solution is make it optional,im willing to have less rewards.
But to be honest if devs want non stat clampers to run old stuff with stat clampers they need to come with something better.
90% of the player base wil farm source marks in solos and duos.
None of us are going to run old 45 min runs ect...

Forcing stat clamp is not the answer,that why alot of people say make it optional.

I don't understand why that is a problem stat clampers wil have more people to run with because we are able to switch back and forth if needed

Youre one of the more reasonable ones in these threads lol

Outside of styles, you should get no marks for trivialized content. It was the very reason the relevancy window was added.

The world is not going to collapse with the proposed stat clamping, stop listening to the people roaming around these forums scratching black boards with forks, while screaming in pain.

At the end of the day, a lot of people have an oddly authoritarian bent and seem to revel in tamping down dissenting ideas. Stat clamp won't be the end of the world, this is a videogame after all. But it's revealed a very ugly side of part of the community that is thrilled to offer fewer, not more options to their peers.

It's not the stat-clamping that's gonna get ya, it's that they'll force you into the old stat-clamped content. It's not like this is being done on a lark. People will be expected to play old content or they'll miss out on something.

Look, I also believe that an option would be better....it's not happening at this time. However, we should not be getting any more source than we already get. We get 3, 4 or 5 for raids, depending on boss counts (ok Prime is 1....but other than that...). It would be ludicrous to offer 5+ or whatever marks to run content that would literally take minutes and offer little challenge (outside of a few mechanic heavy runs), especially if the unlocked nature stayed. An unclamped Paradox run with 8 OP people would take 2 min and would yield 15 marks if we were paid rewards + the chooser marks. Repeatedly running that could generate 300+ source an hour (if people are on the queue up quick). Might as well just remove source marks if asking for anything close to that.

Being greedy is one sure way to make sure the other side does not see any merit in the discussion.

The only way I see an option working is basically to have 2 on duties. One clamped and one unclamped. The entire unclamped list would need to retain lockouts and current payouts...and look like what we have today. The clamped one would look like what is in test. Not sure what kind of server load this would be, but 2 separate instances would be one way of doing it....kind of how there is a a separate instance for FF Event, Reg and Elite. Omnibus could still be used, but would need an option to jump into the 'clamped' or 'unclamped' pool.

And that's just spitballing an idea. I'm not saying it SHOULD or NEEDS to be done....just saying I'd think it would have to work like that to maintain a separation. If you want to try tacking on +1 Source to the unclamped run...sure, why not? Past that...it's just not going to happen.

Are source marks really that hard to get? I've never had an issue. Of course that takes into account the fact that the last 3 episodes have them currently, but even after the change...and even with an unclamped option on queue ups...I don't forsee an issue.

That you?

Those options are fine as long as they don't involve your peers options to rotate their artifacts and inventory items, right? You're fine with the mandatory forcing of players to never rotate artifacts, but when it comes to stat clamping, nope, it's all about "options"...

I don't consider exploits a legitimate option. But I guess if those exploiters want to argue in favor of making clamping optional, I'd be curious to hear it.