0 SP... and the dark side of the Forums

Flawed. Solo content is now an indication of sp mattering? And more hyperbole about "leet" players who want all casuals gone. People should know the basics and how mechanics w/in the game work. Its that simple. Way too many players wanna stand in 1 spot mindlessly mashing buttons while paying attention to nothing. And because people cant do that anymore its like the world has ended.

Been 4-5 days. I feel like a broken record saying this, hotfixes are coming and some content needs to be adjusted. Plus its the weekend right now. Its like all common sense and intelligence has gone out the window on these forums the last few days. Tons of complaints on these forums about high cr players blowing through lower content ruining runs for people. And now thats changed and people complain even more. There is no pleasing some of u people.

As far as sp goes if ya wanna test if sp matter get 2 people playing the same power using the same loadout/rotation where one has 100sp specced and one has 250 specced. This speccing 0 sp and running solo content somehow means something? Spec 0 sp and go run a raid and see what happens. And then come show that video

Another reason this is flawed is because u get stats from your gear. So of course u can still complete content. Especially a solo. I guess i should spec 0 sp and go do an open world daily in war torn area 51 when im 200cr and somehow that will prove sp dont matter

light sp doesnt matter, proving it by racing the scoeboard is no use

just find urself a sparring target and record the damage from 200 to 100sp

******* it where the is kaiser when we need him ?

see what happen when the game make QoL players run away from the game?

on the pvp side proving it is rly ez actually just go tag 1v1 and wavedox the first guy with the same power as u .... sp STILL doesnt matter!!!

you can sit there all you like sparring on a dummy but that's also not 'real damage' it's indicative sure but it's not like testing within a real instance.

What Light is trying to say is people are so used to seeing the big numbers that were present within the previous game they're still looking at it through the wrong perspective.

When you're doing significantly lower damage overall being out DPS'd within an instance by say 1million is a lot more than you realise.

What he's asking Magneto to do is go into a raid with someone that has 300sp set and checking to see what the difference is.

When you're testing in solo content all you're testing is your ability to complete the content and not strictly speaking the amount of damage you're achieving

I too would be curious to see Magneto doing a raid and getting top DPS with 0 SP set and other people that are 'competent' at what they're doing.

Is that your real voice?

But yes, I have been *trying* to empohasise that FP spent on SP add a focus to your stats, not define them.

However, you neglected to show what you gear stats were, which kind of undermines you position .

Exactly!!!
How is this post/video showing that SP don´t matter? i really don´t get that
In all the testing that i´ve done and from my experience is always better to have SP, to do MORE DAMAGE and by extent complete content FASTER.

Do the devs say that players with LOW SP shouldn´t complete content? I don´t think so, it would be stupid from their part alienate a part of the playerbase like that.

In the video that i´m gonna link down below there is the evidence that SP DO MATTER, The fellow tester TINY RICK forgot to put his SP, he was sorcery DPS, look at the end of the scoreboard and see his dmg compared to Fatal´s and mine....

Imagine if all of you forgot to spec your skill points

well i dont really think, anyone is denying that.. when people say SP dont matter, all they means is, dont get butt-hurt when a player dont have over 300 sp... it's not that importance... your equipment and player's skill is still more importance..

the only exception that i would make is Elite Raid.. when you are playing that, you should be at the best you could.. which mean, full set of end game gears, fully moded and max SP..

Yeah.... even Charmed Legacy who was tanking did more damage than him, but SP DON´T MATTER

Nah, i don´t think that was the point that the OP was trying to make...

Yes, there are strong opinions on both sides, but as with the rest of life, the middle is the less vocal majority. I like the revamp, and I want the issues to be fixed. Every time I see someone shout in the game or come across a post on the forum where someone sounds like they're struggling, I try to help. I've seen a lot of other people doing the same thing. Oracle's Database has seen more activity in the past 5 days than it has since I started coming to the forums.

I'm like you - I don't want to see the game loose it's casual players (because I am one, as are all my friends). Some people are going to get frustrated and leave. Some have already left. I don't see the point in focusing on the "is SP important?" fight when there's a lot of content that still needs to be rebalanced. I've been working on my low level and low CR toons, and most of the content is pretty well balanced, but the ones out of balance are way out of wack. People keep pointing to broken instances like Kandaq, but it's still pretty easy to get off the Brainiac ship and to tier five in a few days. I feel for any new player that goes into a broken instance and doesn't know it's broken and is told to Get Good. That sucks, so I hope that the content is reviewed quickly and thoroughly. That's only going to happen if people give it a try and give specific feedback.

So 2mor 3 league mates and i are going to run 1 of the AoJ alerts. Will have 1 heal 1 troll and 2 dps. The 2 dps will be me and proxystar. We are both quantum and will be doing pftt using the same loadout/rotation. 1 of us will spec 0 sp while the other specs 300+sp. We will record this and create a thread showing the video.

Now there are variables that cannot be quantified w/in a run like which of us has aggro, dying, reviving others, etc. All of this happens in raids too. But it will put to bed this notion that sp dont matter and our stats dont matter. Because ive already specced half my sp and i did way less dmg parsing and in content.

I know most of this stuff being said on here about stats not mattering and sp not mattering is nothing but hyperbolic nonsense. No one has done an actual test yet that shows shows sp/stats dont matter that has any accuracy that ive seen. Some older content is over tuned and people are somehow using that to say stats/sp dont matter


We will provide our stats and all the details in the OP of the thread with the video. Only doing this because its getting pretty tiresome watching people do inaccurate tests for sp/stats like the one in this thread and spreading misinfo while trying to rile people up.

Will most likely title the thread "sp test" so look for it sometime 2mor afternoon or evening from either me or proxy. But it could be the following day depending on how late we do the run 2mor and youtube upload. And for the record no one in my circle of friends/league ingame or on the forums wants casual players to be gone.

Wait who exactly is saying that? Cause the OP of this thread didnt say that. Unless i misread something. In fact ive seen numerous people who have said "My sp mean nothing. I have 300 and people with 150 are doing the same dmg as me." Ive seen people saying "My stats dont matter at all."

Here is one thing im pretty sure many people are forgetting because they were so used to AMs and big dmg #s and totals. None of us are doing anything close the dmg we did last week. Its much less. Because of that being out dpsed by say 2 million now is significant. When people used to crit for 125-175k but now only crit for 30k it means a 2mil difference in dmg between dps is a sizeable # now.

Not disagreeing or anything but you have to realize a CR200 / 305sp in only doing 2k-8k to where in that vid you were doing 849 - 1200 a hit. Do you see why some are frustrated at least? Then in some cases for some ppl if they do lower content they are equal dmg or out dmg lol

The FIRST thing you choose in your Stats FP spend is "Focus". I find it incredible that people do not understand that FP spends on SP are to focus your stats, not to define them.

If I choose to go all-in on Healing Crits, that's the *focus* I choose. It's not a great choice for DPS, but it *will* push my stats in that direction, not in another.

FP Spends on SP are intended to *focus* your stats, not *define* them. They direct you in a way that Gear and Mods alone cannot. "FOCUS".

How about yall go in there with no sp in any stats(besides focus maybe) instead. The OP isnt talking about sp when it comes to being competive; thats a given and common sense. Hes talking about the mandatory of needing sp to complete content.

Has there ever been an sp requirement to complete content? No there clearly hasnt. We could go in the alert the way i described with both of us as dps and spec 0 sp. We would still finish the alert. It would just take much longer. Because we know the alert and its mechanics we would still finish. So having the sp specced would mean they matter because people are already talking about content taking too long. So if we ended up in the alert for 45mins to an hour vs 15-20 mins id say they matter. Tons of complains about content taking too long but i guess it should take longer then?

Now mepps spoke about having your sp the same as your cr. But he certainly didnt say u NEED this to complete content. Also solo content is the easiest content in the game. If ya cant complete a solo then no amount of sp is going to matter. Running solos u have run before many times over doesnt reflect anything either because the OP has been around a long time and knows all that content and any mechanics it has.

Back when this was announced, the revamp, it was stated the skill gap was being closed. Meaning players would be more similar and could use basically any wpns or abilities and do alright. Mepps even said this just the other day. A players sp, mods, gen mods, and knowledge of the game and its mechanics would be the new skill gap. This was talked about multiple times since the revamp was announced. So its intended that 2 players with say only a difference of 50p and a few hundred might will do very similar damage. Or preform similar for support as far as heals out and power out.

And yes some stuff on live right now is not working correctly. Which i feel like ive said 200 times on here this weekend. So many people said they expected many hot fixes once it went live and also said the real testing is done on live. And mepps has said they are still reviewing feedback and making adjustments. Thats why they have content too weak or content too challenging threads in dev discussion section. All of this has been said and discussed. Yet people act like this is the finished version of the revamp and nothing will be hotfixed.

Lastly i cannot believe anyone thinks skipping the 60sp points of crits doesnt matter. Again do this and run a raid and see what happens. In fact this is my last post on the topic until either me or proxy posts that video. No explanation or logic that is used seems to mean anything. Its just "the revamp is awful" over and over to try and stir things up. I even had 1 person tell me they were trying to rile people up. Even Ala rebelde, who i rarely agree with, posted the vid from test where the 1 dps forget to spec his sp and a weapon and his dmg was much much lower then everyone in the group, including support roles. And people still tried to say the sp didnt matter

Im done with this ridiculousness. Respond if ya want but i wont be responding back. Im gonna actually go test something and provide some results with feedback instead of complaining. And if im wrong i will sincerely apologize and say i stand corrected. Guess we shall see what happens.

Oh 1 last thing. Please see my post below the 1 u quoted. About dmg #s now. This also seems to be confusing people or simply misunderstanding it. Being out dpsed by a mil or 2 before was nothing because of the high dmg we did. Now when high crits are 30k just do the math and see how many 30k crits u would need to equal the player who out dpsed you by 1 or 2 million For a 2 mil difference u would need 66 30k crits to equal the player above ya. For a 1 mil difference its 33 30k crits. And 30k crits are around the highest # people are hitting for right now. U can also figure in the crit chance and see how many real attacks a player would have to do to get those 33 or 66 30k crits.

Really?

To your other thread about off roles not being able to damage, like they were supposed to. Well, found out which role it benefits them most. Tanks. Tanks with high skill poomt s that are either earth or atomic. Had two, yes two, in a OLYr run other day. Both did as much damage, almost, as my and a friend. I haven't see any other role be able to do this.

My issue with the SP, gear, mods or lack tier of. This revamp was supposed to balance things, not dummy down the game. Per Mepps, gear, mods, and SP were supposed the be the most important things after revamp. Now it's just the power and playstyle you pick.

Why grind for gear if powers are stronger?

I hope you will let us know the results of your testing.

You're welcome.

Yeah.... lots of myths going around.

To this day..... some people still believe that Dom=Aggro.

Thanks.

Movement powers seems to work fine..... but I wonder if the community will allow it??
Will groups kick people who use Iconic powers only thinking it is not cookie cutter enough??
Guess we will have to wait and see.

As for SP.... tooooo often people will blame Low SP for a LOT of things.

When Wavedox went live...... at last we had a tool that proved that lots of bad player had High SP.... and lots of Good players had Average if not Low SP.
So for a while the SP debate lost steam.... but it came back later on with a vengeance.
Let's hope this will kill that way of thinking that you need 300SP before it takes roots.

Yes..... having SP is better the not having them.
But when a mission fail..... 99% of the time SP have nothing to do with it.
Usually it will be people not doing the mechanic.
People not picking up fallen players.
Healer not healing.
People spreading appart and not sticking together.
Etc.

There are a truckload of reasons when a mission fails..... and as a rule SP has NOTHING to do with the mission failing.
But still people will insist on a certain amount of SP.

As for the Casuals we will have to wait and see what happens.

You're welcome.