Catering to Casual Crowd Hurting the Game

Only Legendary subscribers have trophies ... so it's more than just "own."
Not sure, but I think those trophies drop back to zero if you go back to Premium. So, those would have to be active subs.
Continuing on my syllogism, it shows that actively paying PS3 subscriber accounts dramatically outnumber PS4 (despite the census data people usually quote).

I have a serious question. Is there an actual genre of MMO categorized as "hardcore?" Or Has there ever been a campaign for a game that had "for the hardcore gamer" as its main selling point. Sometimes it can be difficult to except, but video games are meant to be played by casual people. Everyone's view of "difficult" will be different depending on how you think and what you are willing to take on. If playing DCUO was a pre requisite for a cardiothoracic surgeon, than yes, please exclude the casual people. The truth is, "hardcore" or "elite" players will have an appetite that cannot be filled by the little things the casual players center their whole experience on. It's a lot easier to put efforts towards making something fun for everyone, rather then to cater to a few who will never be content anyway.

Not to say that there isn't a place for hardcore or elite players. Heck, maybe the devs could make an elite version of the game itself (you must beat the regular version first to receive access) . Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with wanting to be challenged. I just think you have to keep in mind the reality that too challenging (when it comes to video games) is a tough sell. Look at Madden. It's had the same playbook, more or less, for like 15 years and has easy mode. people can't wait to pick that game up, knowing it will be the same experience as the year before. Catering to the casuals..... All the way to the bank!

Duplicate

It's every role. Plus there more dps than any other role so OP has a point

Sorry i have to call bs. I played with a weak a** healer that couldn't heal in NGN. Sure he had nice healing stats cause he was SPAMMING!!! he could not keep me up with the type of hits I was taking. A with more than 50 sp could.

And I'm tired of unmodded low sp players think they know what there doin when they don't( or maybe they do they just to weak to do it).

Unmodded tank cant keep aggro, Weak healers lose power in seconds, Dps get out dps by support roles. So this Player has skill over sp is BS.

It not skill over sp is Respec token over sp. How many HL player went Quantum in February?

You keep any trophies you earn when you drop a subscription. I kept mine when I dropped a subscription.
You can earn trophies from a DLC without a subscription. Only base game trophies require a subscription.
So a DLC "owner" includes anyone that either purchased a DLC or had a subscription after a DLC is released.
Since it is by PSN account, some of the PS4 "owners" are also PS3 "owners" as they previously played the game on a PS3.
The Fight for the Light DLC has been FREE for PS Plus members so not everyone that "owns" it paid for it.

My original point was that there is a very small percentage of accounts that have had access to the latest DLCs.
To have a high CR, a player would need access to the latest DLCs.
To have a large amount of Skill Points, a player would need to own most DLCs.
And finally, difficult and grindy content drives away players.

On another note, VGChartz has estimated retail sales of DCUO prior to it going Free to Play:

• PS3 2011 : 424,369 : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/24662/dc-universe-online/Global/
• PC 2011 : 203,586 : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/47159/dc-universe-online/Global/

That should give one an idea of the actual physical retail copies of the game that sold in 2011.
Someone that purchased the PS3 retail game "owned" the game and has the trophy list.
Plus they would be included in the 4% of accounts that actually spent money on the game.

DCUO is only number 459 out of 3000 PS3 retail games:
http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/3/playstation-3/

1. The game has always had an emphasis on actual player ability mattering more than stats, and I have yet to see an argument that convinces me that changing that aspect is a good idea.

2. You're right, it's not the case in this game and never really has been. As I said, there's always been an emphasis on player ability mattering in the game.

3. That may be the case, but there are also other factors in play, such as the free-to-play model being used (and the choices it provides players) and a player base that can be downright snobbish at times when it comes to the "requirements" they set for end-game content runs as opposed to what the devs set. It's not tough to imagine the latter being a bigger factor and problem with getting players to end game. It doesn't exactly come across as a welcoming environment.

4. Putting aside the "work" comment when talking about a game (always a pet peeve of mine), it's not really reiterating what players have been told, the behavior I talked about has been seen more than once without an unlimited Mark cap. Players just get around it by replaying the living daylights out of the new content, buying all the new Vendor stuff as soon as they can and then proceeding to complain about not having anything to do or buy.

As for the other point, well I'll just say I'm having a difficult time seeing exactly what's so terrible about putting everyone at the same starting point on day 1 of new content releases.

Um, do you believe dominance affects aggro in some way? I do not see how modding has anything to do with a tank keeping aggro.

???

What do mods have anything to do with aggro???

This is so point on imo.

Do you seriously wish the game was designed to require you to put in 40 hours a week?
Do you want the game designed more or less to be a job?

I personally don't, I honestly think DCUO is one of the better MMO designs.

I can spend a few hours a week and keep relevant with current content.
Why is this such a problem? Do you feel your time/accomplishments in a virtual reality are diminished due to this?

Just because I prefer casual style does not mean I do not play a lot of hours during free time.
I sub and have always used the sub method when I am up to running DCUO.

And from my experience over the last 15years give or take any game I have been involved with that started the catering to "hardcore" players has shut down or is on life support. The gaming community is a fickle crowd and it takes only one bad decision to wipe out the community....Origin Crisis put a big dent in the population looking at the numbers posted, and I highly doubt DCUO wants to see another drop in revenue such as that.

Dom has 0 effect on aggro. However that goes right to my point. If a tank is unmodded. They are going to get blasted. Ices shields will disappear quickly. Earth won't get extra defense and will be squishy, etc

Yea heard the story 1,000 of time. Dom dont affect agro. But it funny they sure do lose agrro. DCUO now and days is excuse city. They cant pull adds, healer can't heal, troll can't troll. Then once they get kicked it a cry me a river story and we all fall for it with a bunch of like. Unmodded support roles as a fast majority is not doing what they suppose to do
And if ppl on the forums want to back up this behavior then so be it.

I don't think whatever trend we're posing here is going to reverse. Casual may be a loose term, but essentially we're talking about instant gratification players who are simply not going to grind the way vets did. And those players have to be contributing to keeping the lights on in a great way for them to keep molding that model of game play. It's just reality. e.g. Nintendo Wii could not compete on any level with PS or Microsoft consoles. But they did $ wise by turning the casuals into paying consumers.

Most of us I would say fantasize about being a superhero Cpt Marvel style where he's chosen, lightning bolt and he's there, rather than train and grind and learn a la Batman. In game, people want to get off the ship and start blasting and the longer it takes to start blasting, the less likely they'll stay.

I think the devs have tried to provide content for everyone. Whether you like SM or not, the casual pug group is going to have a hard time getting past round 10. Only a small percentage of people beat Throne, HH and Elite at relevancy. Heck, it's tough for me to get into an HH group that won't glitch the door and just last night, I was part of one that wiped 4 times on Aquaman.... Aquaman folks, sad (sorry Spytle) and average CR was about 128. Anyway, the difficulty is there for a lot of folks.

Having said all of that, I do agree that there should be some sort of reward system besides SP (or augmented somehow like above a certain # get a bonus) for time and grind spent. Because the only bonuses we get now are elite gear and anyone with enough RB can get it all just like those who have the skilled groups or leagues to get it.

Again I believe you are confusing the issue and making a correlation between skill and casual players when there is none. Keep in mind that the examples I have given are only a small sampling of the catering to the casual crowd. What I am talking about is incentive to play. Ask yourself this are you a casual or routine player. If you are a routine player, as I am, then why are you a routine player. The only reason to play this game consistently is character improvement. That is why we grind for feats, grind for exo's, grind for anything. MMO's exist because of the ability to improve our character. This is a unique aspect that keeps us playing, keeps us paying subscriptions, and makes us want to put more investment into our characters. When that time, dedication, investment is devalued in favor of the casual player then our incentive to be that routine player is diminished. Your routine player becomes the casual player and population drops.

When you are talking about tanks them not holding aggro, explain what stat will help a tank with aggro, please?

I'm asking as I have plenty experience as a tank, and I know first hand my abilities used, and not stats, draw aggro. My dom allows me to pull the adds; however, some adds, even after I get aggro or use a pull move have a scripted attack to complete before they come to me. A skilled tank with the minimum dom requirement for content, can pulls adds just fine. The dom requirement needed for BS is not hard to get with 112 gear and even 108 gear would give a player enough dom to pull adds. Aggro, as long as a tank is using abilities they can hold aggro.

Healer with power loss, is that on the healer, DPS, tank or troll? If the healer is spamming powers when it is not needed, it is on the healer, if the troll is not power dumping it is on the troll, and if the DPS are a bit to close it is on the DPS or the tank is not using their mechanics than it is tank.

I can see your point of view but above is my counter arguement. All the issues you describe can be overcome by a skilled player with low SP and no mods. Mods and SP give a boost in stats, but the boost given is so small compared to the stats given in gear. Look at your chest plate along, how much dom does a tank get, vit for troll, resto for a healer, might or precision for a DPS?


As for your arguement about DPS side, they all have gotten easier with the AM. The power respec are sold due to how strong a power is compared to others. Even with that said, a bad DPS is a bad DPS regardless of the power; with strong powers they are a bit better as a DPS.

I have ran with some really good low SP without mods and have ran with some really bad high SP players fully modded.

Since GU47 mods matter less and since GU43 SP have not really matters for DPS since all AM got crit stat boost.

I don't think you know as much as you think you know.

This is interesting. IMO AFII was a great DLC but this data implies people do not appreciate any level of difficulty (Throne). Of course there are several factors that affect this, not the least which is general population, increasing issues with PS3, etc. but I think it all plays a part.

What?

10,000 loyal money spending customers?? I mean look at owls numbers.. the last 2 dlc are owned by less then 1000 people.. the casuals or whatever u wanna call them were always going to eventually leave and have as well despite the game going easy mode. OC sold 6500, new crap less the 1000. So now DCUO has lost the hardcore veteran crowd and the casuals have also left despite being catered to.. yea great decision they made

I gotta comment on this. You cannot judge a single player solely by looking at their health or power bar, or by their skill points or their CR. I know a 131 tank with 80 skill points who can run any content available, solo, and as long as I keep him alive, I will rarely get hit.

I am not a weak healer by any means, but I've run with people who are a high level, with reportedly high skill points, yet they can't use their powers efficiently. This makes the troll running with him spam all their power to keep that dps powered up. This makes the troll look bad, but he's not. Additionally, that same dps will be right up under the tank and I have to spam heals to keep him, and only him, alive. So when I run out of power it makes me look bad, but I'm not. I've run with tanks who couldn't keep aggro off me if they tied them to a tree stump. If something is hitting me I may not be able to use my powers and you die. This makes me look bad, but I'm not.

The problem with a lot of the finger pointers are that they only look at the healer and troll power bar. They only look at the people dying or not getting power. Lately, they look at things not being burned fast enough and still support roles get blamed because we exist.

Some players need to realize that we run content (except for solos) as a team. It that team doesn't pull together, then everyone looks bad.