GU50, Tunso Testing, and Player Testing

So where are we now for balancing?

What powers are under performing in the melee and range category? Which powers are over performing, if any?

Just would like an update here if possbile.

And a big thank you to all of you that are spending your time testing and validating the balance for powers with Tunso test.

I have an Earth and Sorcery toon and curious what others have found as optimal loadouts for these powers.

Thanks guys and gals!

Exactly, but that's not our fault that's the devs fault. First step is to make the change going forward then gradually retrofit it. This game has not always been Anti-Melee dps. At the beginning is was very possible to do which ever you chose. At some point there was a shift in thinking and I don't know if it was just the devs trying to create more work for themselves or actually thinking what they were doing was unique and good but it was a bad shift. Melee dpsing as Rage is the most fun dps power in this game for me, that's why I fought so hard during its revamp for actual mechanic changes to content instead of buffs for the ranged options. Melee vs Range should never have become a "Pick what works" thing because Range ALWAYS works and if it always works why would you ever as a development team start to go the extra mile to make sure melee works too? You are right they won't do this but I just want to make sure EVERYONE in this game knows why.....it's because the Devs won't do it because the hole they have dug themselves is too deep to start building stairs back to the top. This issue is SOLELY the developers fault and anything they try to deflect back on the players is misguided and a lie. IMO since it is their fault they should have to fix it. We shouldn't have to deal with their half baked ideas to remedy an issue they created. That's not what the players do. We also shouldn't be sitting here with a 33 page testing thread because the developers somehow didn't realize how we were dpsing despite every AM revamp discussing that method. When I first read that they didn't know midrange was a thing I almost lost it. That is the biggest crack of bs I have ever read from the developers. This power balance started over a year ago and imo we aren't any closer than where we were Pre - WM or Pre -AMs. If this game does die like some are suggesting is happening, this is the reason right here so I really hope they can fix it because without the core combat mechanics balanced in some way, whatever way they end up picking, you can't really do much else. Balancing powers 5 yrs after a game is should not be huge massive changes. We should be at the point where we are doing tiny tweaks, not discussing how we can balance 3 core playstyles.......

This post from Monday is the latest (haven't added in the Sorcery/Earth retests yet)
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...nd-player-testing.256551/page-30#post-3373163

Quantum, Celestial and Munitions come to mind.

Yeah the spec description was vague there. The stats were listed as approximations by using the tilda and the SP were significantly more than needed to get to those stats. Everyone I've worked with decided to keep it to 8255 and 2796 just because of the comment about just getting weapon attacks and basic DPS crit traits, which are just the T1 traits. After that people were left free to just get as many weapon attacks as needed. I haven't had the chance to crunch the numbers, it's obviously not going to make a significant difference.

You mentioned scaling...are we talking gear or mods or both?

I think mod scaling has to be considered. How mods affect powers damage out potential.

For instance, if precision based powers only get a 5% increase and might based powers get a 10% increase than damage for the precision powers would have to be increased a bit to align them up based on the possible higher damage out that mods provide or are we skipping the mod discussion and just focusing on the gear?

If mods did not exist, than these test would be more valid in live for us as players and it would come down to SP making the difference and making SP mean something when comparing two players. Oh, that player beat me by a million and he was Ice as well. Oh look I'm only at 66 SP and he has 220. That explains it.

I would be all for removing mods from the game to give all powers more balance instead of what we are seeing today.

I've tried to check in every couple days, w/out digging through all of it where is Fire's range sitting? Mass Det's low end damage seems out of whack still on live.

Easy now. You said a couple posts back your intent was not to be combative or non-constructive. Everyone here understands the history and emotions that come with that. This is a more forward-facing thread on what needs to be done next. The devs defined the plan for doing so and we're here to provide meaningful contributions to that plan through testing and specific design-focused feedback. Feedback on how viable melee should be in the future and how midrange could be addressed are on-topic albeit a little premature. Finger pointing the history of past decisions isn't really the intent of this thread, especially when suggesting they may be liars or half-baking ideas. If you want to discuss blame, I'd recommend starting a separate thread with that intent.

NM, checked your post from Monday. I know that's Tunso test results, but those results are not translating to live. I'm seeing non-crits as low as 10k with MD at 131 CR.

When I mention scaling, I mean this...
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...nd-player-testing.256551/page-32#post-3375189

Precision / Might scaling through RD mods, gear, generator mods, and mainframe mods (relentless precision vs. escalating might) are definitely in the scope of addressing scaling. It's a pretty complex topic because the formulas for precision and might are different. So 1 point of one isn't necessarily equally valuable as 1 point of the other. The other thing to consider is weapon DPS, because precision alone isn't the only thing affecting white numbers. The devs have a tall order in front of them for step 2 of this initiative.

I honestly think precision damage being at the mercy of the weapon is holding back combo powers.
maybe changing the formula for Might and Precision based damage is the next step?

I understand. This initiative has 3 phases.

Step 1: Baseline Balancing (Tunso Tests)
Step 2: Scaling Adjustments

A) How baseline results translate to live at the same CR

B) How baseline results maintain proportions into future higher CR

Step 3: Addressing Midrange

You're referring to something that won't be addressed in step 1. It won't be addressed until Step 2. I don't know when that will happen but we can assume it will happen sooner if we all keep contributing to step 1 when needed. Right now we are waiting for the pet changes to get back on PC Test so we can rebaseline them. And we're waiting for the next wave of baseline adjustments.

Sore, I'm replying to your comment but the reply is not directed at you. It's really directed at the Devs. Sore's comment above is probably the fifth or sixth time he (she? it?) has posted this sequence of timing for next steps. Clearly, the players have put HUGE amounts of time into testing, collaborating and communicating to get Step 1 done. I recommend the Devs start a corresponding thread in the Developer Discussion forum as a WIP so we can see the corresponding progress on the Steps outlined above. Partly to take Sore off the hook to keep everyone straight and partly because this is (or should be) a joint effort between Devs and players. I'm not suggesting we get into the deep nitty gritty of the development process but maybe a high level progress update on where this outstanding bunch of testers are in Step 1 (25%? 50%? 75%? almost done?) versus expectations for what Devs need from testers to move into Step 2 and so and so on.

Again, despite a few twists and turns, this thread has been exceptionally collaborative, productive and transparent. It's well past time to give Sore and the testers a breather on this massive effort, and I think it would be encouraging and helpful to see a corresponding thread in the Dev section to inform everyone on next steps in this joint effort.

Fair enought but i read through and it seems they have said they don't know what they are doing yet but we are obviously asking them to act on what you and others are providing. I for one would like an answer on what the devs plan on doing first then provide feedback for how to execute that plan rather than giving them these tunso tests when they haven't even provided an answer on what they plan to do about melee, range, midrange going forward. This thread is getting ahead of itself imo.

I say make some classes better at melee and other better at range.

Rage's melee should be better than it's range but not necessarilybbetter than celestials range.

Make some powers be balanced between melee and range giving them verisitlity at the cost of damage.

Mental's range game should be on par with rages melee game.

The problem is trying to make every class perform well at every range. That shouldn't be the case. Variety is the spice of life.

Mages and warriors are content with being ranged and melee in other games why can we be content with picking a power that performs better in certain areas. Everything does not have to be equal.

This falls along the same lines as Heavy Weapon's suggestion. I just don't see them reworking all the powersets to accomplish this. Not saying it's a bad idea. Just don't see it happening.

Yea I don't see it either but hey we didn't see amazing mechinics coming back then so who knows. It would probably make their lives easier in the long run. Look at rages suffering. It was designed with melee in mind but it can't shine because of mechanics that give a big advantage. The reward isn't worth the risk in most cases for this game, however.

I would go first with white mods. All of the ones that are important to a DPS. See how those scale...

I would also remove all socket non-white mods from the gear. I would than give all players the gather feats and move forward with balancing. This way, there is no imbalance between players with the same gear for Premium vs. Sub or for those of us who have many ALTS.

The difference as I pointed out previously would be SP. I see more complaints on making SP matter and one quick and easy fix is removing mods. It would also make balancing easier going forward for them as well.

BRITTENY is meleeing all of BP as Rage, FWIW.

Then she has a good tank. When the tank faces the mobs and bosses away from the group, everyone can melee range that raid. There's only one AoE attack on the final boss in that raid that's worth blocking for, provided your healer is on his/her toes. The knockback is annoying, but other than that if you can watch bombs, voids, and teleported spawns you're golden!

Kinda what's happening now if you consider 12m as ranged. The point if this is to get each powers form if melee damage within a baseline. Ices melee is 12m wheras rage is 0m. If they ate equal then that guy should be happy.