GU Negativity

A trend is occurring concerning GU's 47 - 50 and the feeling is being expressed that "these updates were not received well" and that "feedback isn't being heard". Maybe it's because I have working on software development for years and deal with client feedback often, but overall I have seen the Devs take a lot of grief from us that we call feedback and do a great job managing it all. They have taken a lot of it and implemented changes to follow in the lines of our feedback. As an example when the CR Differential system was first proposed if a player exceeded an NPC's CR there were no calculations to allow the player to become stronger. Many people requested that to be changed and the Devs heard that feedback and implemented a change before the GU went live. At that same time, players provided concern that the T4 and T5 level content wasn't balanced well and was overly difficult in comparison to other content. The Devs heard that also, but it took 3 more updates before they could get a fix for it. Because it took them 2 months to provide a fix does that mean they weren't hearing and considering the feedback we were providing?

Right now people are negatively reacting to the fact that they provided feedback to the Dev team for GU 50 but the changes the players have proposed weren't implemented. This doesn't mean they haven't heard our feedback though. As a matter of fact, they have said the exact opposite. They have said they have heard it, understand it, but want to wait to gather some data from the live servers from players (there just aren't enough people that log into the test server for them to get the big picture). They can then take the feedback, review the what is occurring from a data perspective, and implement hot fixes to tune up the powers that may require additional buffs.

GU 50 is another step in the right direction with the final destination still not reached, yet people are acting like it's 10 steps backward. GU 47 was a step to balance, regulate, and overall make the game difficulty consistent so they can provide proper 'Elite' content instead of just inflating Health stats and Defense stats on NPC's. This also is a step in the right direction. Is it the end point, of course not. It will continue to evolve and get to it's proper place, but this takes time. There is no magic wand that can be waived to solve every concern we bring up and while we may want it all and want it now this just can't be done.

At the end of the day the negativity is draining. I know it's been a long time for a lot of players and saying be patient is not very accepted as a response but that is really the answer here. Enjoy the game and know that the changes that are being implemented are moving toward the goal we have said we want, the Devs have echo'd they want, and we will see in the future.

that wasn't it at all. it was the fact that 3 weeks of testing got no answer from a Dev what so ever and then right before the GU dropped, the Devs said that testing was done wrong.

I can't quote from my phone (or I just don't know how. Lol)

That last part about the game moving in a direction "we" want. ???

I don't recall anyone ever asking for a single Mark system. Or, Weapon Mastery. Or, Advanced Mechanics. Or, for or CR# to completely override all other forms of personal stat progression. Or, content relevancy. Or, _________.

Yea....no.

Three weeks of testing for nothing, then they have the audacity, the temerity, the unmitigated gall, and the disgusting proclamation to say on the eve of GU50 that "The testing you did was wrong, this is how we want you test"

Really? The goal that the devs have said repeatedly for over a year was to achieve balance. If they really did care they would've implemented the changes that were propose to numerous, credible and insightful players that know what the hell they are doing.

This update was weak. The dot powers are forever in the dust. It didn't even seem like they buffed HL at all regardless of what they say.

Black Adam is damn near God Mode / a walking cheat code. The best pvp players were ignored as well cause they knew they saw a second coming of Shazam, who by the way is another ridiculously overpowered legend.

It comes off as....whats the damn point anymore. Why are we wasting time testing this stuff when they won't even consider the feedback.

People are angry as hell and I dont blame not a damn soul because if history serves me right then it might take months for them to "hotfix" everything to where they should be.

They did. The problem is, it's not what was asked for, but what they could give us that wouldn't trivialize the game.

Single Mark System. Everyone seemed to hate the inflating mark and how it got players to the end fast and there was no sink for them. Symbols too. Well, we got what we asked for. Only problem is that it kind of went the other way and you still can level quickly. You just can't save marks and the tokens feats are now horrible to get.

Weapon Mastery, everyone wanted a way to switch weapons on the fly. I don't think that was possible in the game's development. They decided to make it a combo, which was possible since it's animation into animation and they did do something similar to legends characters. Like quick brawling and stuff.

Advanced Mechanics I think was because people wanted to be able to compete with the combo classes that were an advanced mechanic in a way and were out performing normal powers. Then GU36 happened, and well... It became a real problem.

Yeah... CR is something some players wanted to matter. Why do you think it became so important. The problem was, T5+. Stat flattening kind of made it important, as your differential is whether you perform properly or not.

Content Relevancy... You got me on this one, no one asked to only be able to play in a small section of the game. It's like symbols. It's removing content. I think this was just a way to limit us on the single mark system they introduced. Which I am not a fan of either. I want to get rewarded for all content. I don't.

I don't agree with the way they came about it. There were times they pushed away legitimate concerns. A "I told you so" can work in a lot of places. Match NPCs has been a problem since GU17. They still cheat, no one talks about them because you can at least get immunities and no hard stuns. I miss having certain weapon combos that got shortened to fast animations that look silly. I miss the old school Gadgets, which was probably the most balanced for it's design.

I actually love AMs. Yes, I said it, I love them. I hate WM. GU47 wasn't that bad. Mark system needs to change, I hate it. Relevancy windows makes me feel limited on content. There is a lot of internal roller coasters.

BUT, we did ask for a lot of what was given to us. Just not in the form we asked for.

Gu47 is the reason alot of people hate these past few updates. Alot of people have left the game for multiple reasons. Gu47 being a big one. I know for sure that the whole skill point issue made alot of players angry.

Hopefully by November dcuo will have its population back

I've been in business since the mid 1970's and I have learned over that time that customers will accept almost any set back, issue or problem with a product that they like providing they receive regular MEANINGFUL communication from the person /company selling those goods or providing that service. The issue is not so much technical as the growing perception among the player base that the company is indifferent and unprepared. I don't happen to share that view. Things happen and NO plan survives contact with the enemy.

HOWEVER, that IS the perception and the powers that be are making a big mistake by not taking a long look at how and in what manner they communicate with their customer base. I am not suggesting they simply give the players everything they ask for. In fact I would go the other way. Players are for the most part NOT game developers and over catering to them can damage the game as a whole. But the team does need to OVER communicate and address issues that they may not be comfortable with if they are going to get the trust and confidence of a large portion of the player base back again.

Telling the testers all their testing was wrong at the last minute was a no-no. I am not a shining star for testing, because I have logged in once to try out being a max cr quantums, in lieu of a power respec token on my main. But I recognize the effort, and appreciated all the time and feedback on the part of the testers. Testers, thank you for your efforts. (I did not respec just to finish that story)

Yes that is what my statement means. Players provided feedback. None of the feedback was implemented. Players are responding very negatively. The Devs clarified why. Players are still responding negatively.

The Devs did not say the testing was done wrong btw. They stated that they have guidelines they use for internal testing. They shared those with us now. They then stated that their concern is over buffing a power and would rather tweak powers up via a hot fix over time than install an OP power. Players in a live environment have historically shown that they develop creative ways to produce damage and while under the guidelines they outlined the power may be slightly under performing in average dps, it may be just right after the full community plays with it. IF it still isn't they can and will tweak it up.

They have seen the issues that happen when they overly buff a power and the crazy tin foil hat people that scream "they did this on purpose for respec token sales". This approach is the other side to that coin.

I trust the devs will continue to make a great game. They know what they are doing.

Content relevancy might not have been asked for, but given the new system it was something needed.

With SWG, the Galactic Civil War system allowed players to gain GCW points from taking on opposing factions, the points being able to be used for increasing rank (and getting buffs/items for each rank) as well as planetary control in the game (you'd see faction appropriate starships in the sky as a result, which was kinda neat).

The problem was, there were more than a few spots in the game that were spawn points for particular factions, and the NPCs at those spots were usually far below the level cap for players. So they had to put in a relevancy window on faction opponents for players, otherwise players would have just farmed those static spawn points and thrown the GCW system way out of balance from what was intended, using content that was WAY too easy to get ranks and the accompanying perks as well as disrupting planetary control.

As soon as they announced content relevancy, I understood why they were doing it. Even without an area control system like the GCW, you'd still be facing the problem of people using nothing but low-end content to get high-end gear or hard-to-get styles from the Rare Style vendor, things that really should be done using top-tier content (or the highest tier available to you).

Could there be more flexibility on the relevancy windows? Probably. But it really does need to be in place in some form.

Nekron,

Those guidelines should have been done a while ago.
That's essentially saying their feedback is irrelevant at the last moment

That was the most accurate amount of feedback displayed.
Cold hard data just how Tunso wanted it done from GU47-GU50.
There is no defending a crew that likes to turn tables when they get exactly what they ask for.

This aint the first time it's happened either. It's happened throughout the history of this game.
it needs to stop and powers team need to start doing a better job of communicating.

Over powered legends being released.. nothing new but needs to stop.
It's a vicious cycle that needs to change if they want to have this game up and running later on.

The so called "clarification" doesn't make any sense and was incredibly last minute.

You personally didn't ask for these items but many people ask for things (probably not realizing what they are truly asking for) and some of these were the solutions.

Players wanted to have multiple ways to have balanced dps between all the powers. Some players wanted to use weapon attacks for that, some wanted to use powers, and some wanted to use both. These opinions were and still are all over the forums. The Dev team introduced WM as the first step toward that. Then they introduced AM as another step. Possibly in the future there may be another new thing. The Devs are obviously wanting to get the AM's in balance right now.

Secondly, Players wanted harder, more challenging content. The Devs developed Survival Mode and Elite content for that but with no way to balance the player stats to the npc stats or the players level to the npc level it become very difficult to create challenges. The solution was to standardize the stats to be linear (stat flattening), but then the next problem becomes how do players get stronger against the NPC over time. The solution for this was to create a differential between the player and npc's CR where the greater the difference for the player over the NPC the stronger the player attacks become and the less damage in the player takes. After this was done the Devs could balance the challenging content much easier and quicker.

The single mark and content relevancy changes are because of the change to monthly delivered content and there being no reason to have a multiple mark system. When the new content drops in August, players will have a Raid and a Duo that will be new for approx 3-4 weeks. If you play every day with no replays and only run the brand new content that comes out that would be 72-96 marks from just those two pieces of content before the next two pieces of content come out. Players have been asking for more content, faster releases of content, saying I want it all and want it now, for a long long time. This is the solution to that and of course the reality of it isn't what people thought it would be.

Basically you didn't ask directly for these things. I don't see many people asking directly for a lot of the stuff implemented in the game, but people are asking indirectly for things and these are the solutions being delivered for those.

So they heard our feedback about a handful of constructs in the HL AM not getting the extended combo buff, and chose to do nothing?

Lol, no. They didn't even read the thing critically until it was too late. And then they came back with this akward melee/range dichotomy that completely ignores the fact that basically every power updated in 2015 has some kind of setup for increased AM damage at 12.5 meters (coincidentally this is the middle point between full range and point blank, or the middle point of our range, for brevity's sake let's call it mid-range, even though that doesn't exist as of two days ago).

They literally did nothing with our feedback - some of which was Shiney Mackeral who caught specific stretches in the construct chains that had not been buffed.

It's one thing to stick up for some people who are being unfairly treated. That's admirable. But to cheapen the response of people who are raising legitimate issues and are rightfully pissed off - which Mepps participated in last night by implying that we were some kind of angry mob (always good for business btw, no issues there DCUO) that's just plain ignorance.

They didn't do anything to the powers because they hardly even read the feedback critically and with enough time to do anything about it. Now they're telling you a story that smells a bit like seafood. This isn't negativity for negativity's sake on our part. They booted this. Some of us - read, not you - are appropriately dismayed at this.

I can tell you there's not gonna be many on test server

I agree the testing guidelines for their internal testing should have been posted awhile ago.

I see nothing that says player testing or feedback is irrelevant though. I just see them saying that they internally don't test that way, they discussed things on their end and said let's not delay the GU and release it and we'll see what the full player community does.

If the feedback from the players holds true then we'll see changes. Likewise we as players can now test in the same vein as their internal testers or provide feedback on testing methodologies they may be missing.

The communication from the Dev team to us the players on this game has been way, way, way more than any other MMO I've ever played, so I think we'll just disagree on the communication being poor.

The overpowered Legends thing seems crazy to me though since I personally just don't see it. I don't have a true way to test Legends dps though so I can only go by playing multiple and comparing them. From my viewpoint they are well balanced but I freely admit I don't have enough data to say either way. If I could review their stats, have a training dummy set up, and do controlled tests then I would say whether one was more powerful than another. At this point I can only go off 'tests' that have too many variables.

It doesn't make sense that they believe it will be easier to increase the dps on a power than deal with the FotM screaming, power respec sales tin foil hat accusations, and other insane rhetoric that happens when they buff a power too much?

It was last minute, but it made sense.

It really didn't, though. Why release an update you know is clearly going to need fixed down the road? At 12.5 meters HL is doing about 8k to 6k damage less than pretty much every power updated this year, save for rage.

They were miles from making that power OP.

They were up against the time wall and just pushed out the update with no regard for the player base. There is no other excuse, I mean look at the live stream yesterday there are still people on vacations and it had to be prerecorded. I commend you on sticking up for them but this was a half *** update followed up by lame excuses and trying to deflect blame onto the player base.

Hopefully some of the better players can get into the secret test group and help correct some of these imbalances.