Problem isn't support/dps or the devs... it's us

Not to mention, for every Bloodborne out there, there are 1000 games that are explained much better than this one. It honestly comes across as laziness/ ignorance that they can't explain their own power mechanics in game. This is a DC product, which means kids will always be a large demographic. Regardless of all the hand holding shade from Spytle to make it seem like anyone who wants direction is bad at the game, some sort of direction should have been implemented years ago.

Can you give an example of a power that has an unhelpful description please?

Think about it from a time perspective, though. Really, that's what's important: DPS. Say you have an NPC that takes your group 3 minutes to defeat. If you have a defense debuff up, you'll defeat that NPC in roughly 2 minutes and 51 seconds. You've saved 9 whole seconds, and that's if the debuff stays up non-stop. I'm sorry, but that's not really going to be noticeable.

Do you honestly think that all the powers/ game mechanics are explained well enough in the beginning of this game? There is a reason there are so many bad players in the game and its because they are uninformed on how to do their DCUO "jobs" successfully. It shouldn't land on every individual player to take bad players aside and teach them how to be better, it should be in the games design to teach them. Saying there are guides out there is a cop out IMO and considering the devs won't tell us the testing methods they use for powers(the last I checked at least. this could have changed) how can any one of us put out a legit guide or even give meaningful feedback?

well this is a no skill needed game anymore. it is hard to know what to do when you first start. but not THAT hard to figure it out.

That's an interesting idea, though I'm sure there would be complaints from folks who primarily PUG that they can't get balanced groups together and are being unfairly denied marks.

I say I burn through what little there are. Using NGN as an example, you're supposed to hit the terminals on the sides to stop adds from spawning, but if you just stack DPS and stand in the middle, you can just burn through steppenwolf in just a few minutes without touching a terminal. In HH, with the right group, instead of killing Granny's drone, we can put together a group that can just kill Superman before she hits all the terminals. In HoH, instead of stunning the handlers and burning them down, last time we ran we just burned through Cerberus without the hands. It's like that for many of the mechanics in game. Too easily avoidable.

There's nothing for support either. It feels like every mechanic is an individual survivability thing where we have to just block, roll or die. There are no controller or healer "walls" that we have to overcome like there is for tanks. Even in Elite, we need 3-4 tanks sometimes, but still only 1 healer and controller. There are hardly any controller specific mechanics in the game, and literally none where if a controller doesn't do his duty you just can't pass. Healers never have to heal damage over time on the group because (when the tank has full aggro) everything seems to be either a 1 shot or inconsequential damage.

I haven't played a game where I wasn't given direct instructions on how to play in the beginning. For example, I just recently started the Witcher 3 and the very first quest has us learning all the basics of combat right off the bat. Additionally, there is an entire menu dedicated to "tutorials" where it explains everything you've learned. This game has a partial tutorial about combat mechanics on the ship, but it isn't ever expressly stated that you will need to keep these committed to memory as you progress through the game.

When do you really hold our hands? Generally, we jump into content and see what the mechanics are and how to beat it. The only "hand holding" you guys do are skull attacks, and many games have that type of indicator.

I managed it because I got extremely lucky. After I hit level 30 in 2011, I had no idea what a controller was (as there isn't any description in game as to what it is). I had no clue why I would need power over time, or even what that meant. I didn't know what enemies to use a healing debuff on. Didn't know that the higher I got my hit counter, the more SC and power regen I would gain. I didn't know anything until some guy saw me shouting and taught me how to play. I found the forums on my own because I wanted to get good at the game. Most people don't have the desire to read a lengthy guide on how to play and prefer to learn on the fly.

Asking people to look to outside sources for EVERYTHING is a lot to ask for. I could write an incredibly detailed guide, make as many youtube videos as I wanted, and it would only reach an incredibly small portion of the community.

I appreciate Spytle discussing this with us. I think it's clear we all want this game to get better and grow. Productive, respectful interaction with members of the Dev team is the best way to accomplish that.

I think the tutorial idea has been brought up before, and because of the potential resources that would be required, it was decided that focusing on other things was more worthwhile. Not saying I'm against more thorough tutorials, FWIW.

What?!? Are you trying to use logic on me? Is that what you're trying to do?

It has, I remember it. They said it would take the same resources as it would to build an instance and based on feedback they had gotten from the community, it wasnt a tradeoff they were willing to make. I still think its the silliest excuse ever.

I don't even think a full on tutorial is needed. But a video would be nice. At MOST it takes an hour to make. Hell, have the players make them and save whatever little time it would take. I'd gladly do one for free. We need something in game. Anything.

your response to me us what I'm responding too

I know the game is beatable for a 2222 group I get that I'm not saying it isn't....

My point is that I feel any deviation from that should not name it faster or better... The game should be hard enough that 2222 is more desired and any deviation of that requires more skill

Right now almost every group is beating the content 1115 which tells me the content is too easy...

Too easy is just as bad as too hard if 2222 was the easier way to beat it and subbing out a support role made the content harder not faster that would be a lot better in terms of getting support growing again... I'm not asking for you to do role less debuffs (oppositevofvthe akert roles buffs) I'm asking for the content to be hard enough that deviating from 2222 is annoyingly frustrating and doesn't speed up the run the skilled would enjoy the challenge and those who just want want to get through the content will opt for the easier (mire guaranteed to win) option

This game is littered with dps like most mmos And the few instances you've tried to make 2222 the best way they always find work arounds... Clown boxing in throne to avoid teleport and the colors floor panels in lab... Inthink when a work around to a mechanic you put in place shows it should be dealt with swiftly fir the life of that piece of content while it's relevent...

As I mentioned before and I know I'm long winded but you guys really have it down with sm rounds 7-10 really where you start seeing the average skilled grouos struggle in any deviation from 2222 the more skilled grouos can hold on a little longer but the average skilled grouos tend to start moving to 2222 to pass to the next round.. I'd like to see this sort of difficulty be pushed for raids

It's just something I'm sure you guys think about something inthink needs to be implemented....

Also when we start getting the month to month content I'd like to see role less buffs removed from alerts... It shouldn't be a whole month of new content a support role won't be needed for by the majority of the community .. That was terrible for healers in af1 I would. It like to see a repeat of that ... Any deviation from 1111 should again make itemize challenging

Spytle said: ↑
“Another post I find so ironic.

You say there are few mechanics and then you say you use the DPS stacking, especially of a certain skill level, to blow through them.

it is important to understand that balancing these things and making sure mechanics meant to throttle the players are not so obtuse and cumbersome that an average group could never complete them.”
Here's a crazy idea. How about rewarding a team that plays the content the way it was meant to be played, 2-2-2-2 with a higher chance of getting the better gear. If a team just wants to blow through it with stacking dps then they get a lower chance or maybe no chance at the best gear.
This way maybe some dps will learn their other roles and more support would be needed and appreciated. More mechanics just means that people will figure out more ways to bypass or glitch content and I for 1 would have less of that kind of nonsense. Just a thought..

They show us objectives on screen and in the map, our powers are somewhat detailed in the menu, we get tips in loadscreens, and the trees themselves are designed in a way that you can pick just those powers in order and will have a decent loadout. My hand is held.

A few years ago this wasn't the case, but now it is.

This is where it ties in.

For new and/or inexperienced players: some don't care, some completely refuse help, and there are those who can't communicate with others.

There are also experienced players who would rather kick someone rather than help them, some won't communicate, and some would rather berate those who they believe are causing the problem.

Look, something shiny! *runs away*

I think Superpatriot and others did make a bunch of short video tutorials for them. Don't recall where they are, though.

Then you just run the risk of people trying to game the system instead of playing the game. That can bring about a whole different set of headaches for both the devs and the community.

The war room is not an instance with a boss fight. That's what i was refering to.

And in the past we had mission tracker instructions that would literally say:

- do this to do that
- do that to stop so-and-so

it was very very hand holdy, imo.

Thanks for the thoughts.

you kind of stuck to my original point, but this includes a bit of the derail on the bloodborne ref. I was not trying to compare apples to apples, just the philosophy of having to teach. Bottom line, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. WOW, as a more appropriate example does not teach you builds and loadouts or rotations. You simply learn them or you do not. They show you the basics, and that is it. Now, we certainly do not have the best UI, and were looking forward to improving it, but that is on hold as you all know.

That is not what I was saying at all - At all. Not even close to what I was implying.