Using Census for the benefit of all

why not? its no worse then seeing a person's CR SP, what SP's they still need, what CR/SP all their league-mates have and need still.

why the hell not be able to communicate outside of the game via these privacy invading sites?

Note that Sore and Bytecode aren't the only folk playing with this data: http://dcuobloguide.com/tools/census/character/show/?id=562958545770422&world=2

How would you do it? Ask Sore and co to maintain a list of contact details?

If you want to know if somebody's logged in or not, start the game up and check your friends list.

I definitely understand and respect your opinion, bareheiny. Unfortunately, there's no way we app developers can implement an opt-out. It may be possible in the future, if SOE implements OAuth, so players could "login with" just like some sites integrate the same with Facebook, Google, etc. All of those implement OAuth. If that becomes available in the future, I'd be happy to implement a verified opt-out on top of that. But now think about this, and by saying this I don't mean to disrespect you in any ways, but don't you see value on having access to other people data, so you can compare/benchmark your earth tanking stats? Don't you feel like you could contribute as well, and let other earth tanks use your data to learn from your stats? Imagine if everybody opted-out, there would be no data to benefit the community. I'm sure that's not gonna happen, as many people wouldn't mind sharing/helping. Similar options are implemented by various softwares, for e.g. when you accept many terms of services of webapps nowadays, you're contributing with a large amount of data about yourself, that may be even more personal than a character profile in a game, and you may don't know because you may not have read that long ToS. Like I said, please take this the best way you can, I'm not meaning to disrespect you in any ways when I tell you those things. It's just how this kind of stuff has been working for quite awhile on the web, internet, games, etc.

Thanks much for sharing your concerns in a nicely manner and still recognizing the work I've done so far. I really appreciate it.

Thank you...all I can say is thank you for taking our concerns into consideration. I don't want to go too deep about the census app or anything, considering me and others already did and the results weren't all so pretty but seriously, thank you, for once someone isn't saying how people are trolling or anything.

Oh I fully appreciate that you can't provide an opt-out - even if you did so, somebody else may choose to create a viewer that doesn't. Any such function has to be handled at SOEs end (in this case, specifically DCUO).

I'm definitely finding value in the data...and I recognise the hyprocisy that would be involved if I chose to opt-out but continued to use it. Although if everybody chose to opt-out if such a function was available, that would tell me plenty

Anyhoo....I've expressed my views on this data in the appropriate threads - so my primary point was simply that we should all accept that we may have differing thoughts on this data. It would be much more peaceful if we all simply accept that - rather than having threads derailed and devolved into petty name-calling.

My initial thoughts on the availablity of the data have softened, but I still have my concerns....and I also I fully appreciate that others don't share those concerns. Please note that my issues have always been around the data...and never directed at the app developers.

I'll just be sitting back to see what y'all come up with next with regards to presentation and such

Leaguemates sure.
Non-leaguemates no.

No friends. No strangers. No exceptions. That I could agree to.

Hey DCUController, before I agree with the other folks here, I wanted to tell you that it's a great idea. It just needs some product thinking/definition around privacy, but building an offline chat (well, offline to the game, but of course online on the web) is actually on my radar, but it's not that simple like anyone can message anyone.

Twilight has a point there - it could feel obtrusive to people to start receiving messages from other people you have no idea who they are. You could say "ah, but the game allows that", but then you are logged into the game, and everyone that plays it knows how it works, so they're open to that when they're playing, but not when they're studying, working, etc.

bareheiny has a point too - even if we wanted, there would be no way to associate "these users on our webapps, that clicked on save my character there" are the same users as the actual players behind those characters in the game.

If you read my previous answer to bareheiny, I'm explaining why we can't implement opt-out, and that's exactly the same reason we can't associate our web app users with the actual players in the game. Like I told bareheiny about the "login with" SOE to our webapps, if they implement OAuth in the future, I'd be happy to build features not only to opt-out but also to opt-in "a little more", let's say, and let people have private/group chat, etc. However, if we get to that point, it will require a lot more of consideration for building such features, like making sure people won't use it for spam, abuse, etc.

What I had in mind was an improved LFG on the web - pretty much the same as we have in game, with a few more features to help people put groups together. Stuff like "filter only messages containing the keywords NEED, TANK and LOCKDOWN". I don't know you guys but I sometimes get tired of reading too much on that blue background. I'm not sure though if people would adopt that, since it's more practical to just LFG in game.

If you have any more ideas now that I gave you some context on the constraints and possibilities, please let them flow and keep posting them here. Perhaps we will find a cool way of taking game chat offline

Be sure it has nothing to do with money

The DCUOBLOGUIDE version is beautiful.

Glad to hear! I'm honestly not sure what the next steps will be, it actually depends on what SOE will make available, or maybe disable access to. For e.g. it's been requested everywhere and by a lot of people to show base stats instead of buffed stats on the leaderboards (my app) or equivalent alphas (Sore's app). I'm trying to contact SOE to make that suggestion, since the large amount of requests from the community, and I agree with that too. Rage tanks are owning health leaderboards, Ice defense's, and so on.

You're very welcome and I'm loving the tone of this topic. Thanks for helping to keep it kind and respectful.

It is pretty.

And it also leads to a question for you and Bytecode - SuperEliteBatman (USPS) is still on Brainaic's ship....he has clothes on, but no gear - and none of the apps are displaying his styles. Is that intended?

If it is, does it make sense to have a placeholder image in your apps (rather than the red x thing)?

It is indeed, very fancy looking!

It's incredible how each developer uses the exactly same data to expose it in a quite different way to users. It's been great to have others enjoying a similar activity. I've said this somewhere else before and I repeat - if anyone wants to ask me any questions on how I built something, I'd be happy to share my learnings. Sore and I just met each other a couple weeks ago when all of this started and we already learned a lot from each other, which is great. Anyone else is welcome to join the convo! Twitter generally works best for me.

That's a good idea - much better to see a placeholder than a broken image

Those are some fair points and would be good uses of the data.

Speaking personally, though, I can honestly say I don't care what other people's stats are. That's really none of my business, even if we happen to be grouped together. Digging around the stats of others like that just comes across to me as being nosy and (in extreme cases) rude, and that's not something I'm comfortable with, even if it isn't actual personal data on me. I will say that I did use one of the sites/apps (wish I could remember if it was yours or Sore's, can't recall right now) to look up my own characters' data to see what showed up, but that's as far as I went. I even deleted the link from my bookmarks a short time ago.

As far as contributing goes, I'd have doubts about exactly how much I could contribute. I'm part of that very small percentage of the community that sticks to solo/duo play, and as a result my stats are going to be (in some cases) WAY off the norm. I'm a freaking statistical anomaly, so what others could learn from my data is pretty questionable.

I have great respect for the time and effort you, Sore and others have put in on the apps, and I tip my hat to all of you. But it's not for me. The only thing I would ask is that you all remember that there are people behind that data.

You're welcome.

Just wondering...can you guys like..add in the locations of style drops? I know there's tons of threads and websites that shows the location but I was thinking it would be cool to have it all in one ya know. That's if it is actually necessary to have that included in the app.

same way they did the pictures I assume...

well thats what I was saying or trying to say I suppose, it merely be the ppl in leagues, or on the list that you marked as friends

I know that, could do like a signup thing IF you want to do the messaging ordeal part. IF not then you could just as easily use the app as a search for ppl app as you made it for.


something about the newer feature too, the feat list thing, I think it should be broken up by PvP and PvE, as me personally I am mainly focusing on PvE featrs currently, and all the PvP feats were at the top lol

and yea a better LFG would be good, possibly have a filter for it so you can filter whats being asked for, what CR is being asked for, whats being asked to be ran ect

"willflynne

I have great respect for the time and effort you, Sore and others have put in on the apps, and I tip my hat to all of you. But it's not for me. The only thing I would ask is that you all remember that there are people behind that data. "

exactly this.

more power to you if you like it. allowing me and others to opt out of the personal info hurts nothing.

people can still get the overall stats, and if they do not wish to run with me becase they can't access my personal stats, oh well. not the people i want to play with anyway.

only been 10 days or so since mepps said they were still looking at everything, but i hope they decide one way or the other on the opt out option soon.

Man i am soooo sick of people saying these apps are elitist tools. If some1 kicks u over stats they did u a favor. And imo any player against these apps and having your info shown has something to hide. These apps stop people from lying and thats a big problem in the game. This is about exposing the truth and any day that anything comes down to lies and truth i will side with truth everytime. If a player has nothing to hide then they just dont care about this stuff. Seems to me its the people that have things to hide that are against the apps because i have yet to see a legit reason as why these are bad. There is an ignore list if people bother u and like i said any1 kicking people over stats is not some1 i would wanna run with anyway. Dont see any issue with these apps at all.