Sniper rifle muzzle velocities and "the hell..."

Because engineers do sit out beyond render distance with AV turrets.

Also, What?: "all comments like the one you ware making show, is that dedicated snipers are unreasonable."

Don't use them, don't need to try to use a bad gun.

with standard ammo the M16 has a muzzle velocity of around 948m/s (around 880 m/s for the shorter m4) while the dedicated sniper's rifle the M24 using match grade M118LR (which is designed for long range shooting) only has a muzzle velocity of 786 m/s... just saying

this here too is just wrong... most assault rifles used now a days have an effective range to point target (distance at which the average shooter can hit a man sized target 50/50 while the round still is considered lethal) of at least 500 meters (usually more) with standard loads...with match grade round like the Mk 262 you can push that to 700 meters... We genrally zero our assault rifles for 300 meters lol... Hell the full size MP5 submachinegun firing the piddly 9×19mm pistol round has an effective range of 200 meters... also from experience as an 0317 I can tell you most targets snipers engage are not over 500 meters... especially with the prevalence of urban combat now... every now and again you could take a nice long shot but they were not what anyone would call really common place and most of the real long range shots were against hard targets or fixed positions using anti-materiel rifle rifles... a snipers stock and trade is precision not distance... the distance is just a bonus that we occasionally get to take advantage of because of our weapon systems which are more specialized toward accuracy allowing it... it's only in games and movies that snipers run around all day poping head-shots at 1km...

you are right that the ranges in this game are compressed tho... at 300 meters in real life a soldier armed with an m16A4 should be able to hit a person with nothing more than irons... now while the render distance and velocity are part of this the biggest deal isn't with either it's with the way the game handles ballistics and the damage drop-off... the ballistic arc in this game is crazy compared to the velocities of the rounds and so is the damage drop off... I have trouble even saying the ARs and carbines have a 100 meter effective range because by that point the drop on most weapons is very noticeable and it takes 1/3+ of a magazine to kill so honestly I'd put their effective range shorter than that... sniper's rifles effective ranges are gauged differently as the effective range of a sniper's rifle is considered the maximum range at which a single shot carefully fired by a marksman is basically guaranteed to hit the target while the bullet still remains lethal... given the whats on the PTS we can put that at around 250-300 meters for the sniper's rifles... since it killing in 1 or 2 shots would still be considered lethal if the AR/carbine can be considered lethal when they take that many to kill with a head-shot at 1 meter lol ... this will mean that the sniper's rifles will have 3 time or more the effective ranges of any of the other weapons... which is kind of crazy... as I said irl the m16 has an effective range of around 550 meters which can even be pushed up to 700 with better ammo, and around 500 meters for the shorter M4A1 and a standard sniper's rifle like the m24 or m40 are generally only considered to have an effective range of 800-900 meters... not even twice the effective range... you have to get into very large or specialized rounds like the .50 BMG or 338 Lapua Magnum to be close to hitting 3 times the effective range and that's with the sniper's rifles using match grade ammo designed for long range shooting and the AR/carbine using standard grade...

if anything the exaggerated ballistic arc of infantry weapons across the board needs to be fixed to bring the weapons more inline with each other because right now a lot of them throw round out that behave closer to a softball tossed underhand than a bullet going at well over supersonic speed... you should be reasonable able to engage with an AR or carbine at 100-200 meters without having to prop the thing at a damn 45 degree angle and pouring most of a magazine into a single target... you also shouldn't have to aim meters over a targets head with a manual action large caliber sniper's rifle to hit a target past 200 meters... even if we did that sniper's rifles would still have their role as they would be not only much more powerful but much more accurate at all ranges... but then we could have some actual ranged combat at actual decent ranges

(morning, trying not to glaze over... probably failing)

I find some claims hard to believe, but I'll just leave it at "not everyone's sporting optics" and "maybe we had a different doctrine". All I know is that I was taught by the iron sights of my Galil which went between 200 and 300. And people were slapped if they decided to use the 300. MG's were a different ball of yarn and so were our DMRs.

But in PS2 sense, projectiles don't lose their velocity (I have no proof of the opposite) and it takes WAY more shots to kill a target. The smaller rifles might have higher velocities (physics because of smaller, lighter projectiles) but they lose that velocity fast as opposed to the heavier projectile of larger caliber weaponry which probably fly slower, but retain their speed further.
I am running off my internal logic here, by the by. So whatever's in RL on PS2 can vary wildly and I can be just plain wrong. But when my target can walk out of the line of the projectile and back into it AFTER the shot is fired, something is a bit off. Especially when my target then unloads at me with his standard medic rifle and hits me multiple time with accurate fire.

I'm waiting on the possible patch Tuesday/Wednesday(maybe there is one, maybe there isn't) to make my final judgement if this is something to poke for. "DMR's", especially the standard rifles for VS and TR seem to be weird in their performance. What little I used on my VS it seemed halfway decent but on the TR it was just terribad. Maybe there's something I'm missing on their stats and performances. Last I checked a few weeks ago the VS one had a somewhat flatter trajectory, that might be it. Putting a silencer on the 99SV just made the drop and velocity so bad, I was better off taking my SOAS-20 with me.

As this is something I just now started to look into, some of my arguments might be incomplete or completely invalid. We just have to wait and see.

The semi-auto rifles are not for long range sniping, the best way to use them is to add the smallest magnification scope they have (3.4 for most of them) and attack at 30-40m (high level cloaking is also a must-have).

Are you joking? This is the biggest sniper buff in infiltrator history in the game.

Right now the guaranteed headshot kill range of a Longshot/Rams/Paralax is roughly 70m. It's getting pushed to 300m. Seriously people.

But it's range is being dropped down to 300 for a previous no limit on nanoweave level one or less, and only for the Longshot/Rams/Parallax. The other rifles suffer much more. Seriously people.

Infantry does not render beyond 300m.

Also, what does not render in PS2, cannot be harmed in any way. Would you be happy if the tooltip said that you can 1-shot people at 2000m distance? Because, since you can't damage people beyond 300m, it is really the exact same thing.

(300m is actually the maximum render distance for infantry. In really populated areas it becomes smaller).

I got the Impetus the other day, fun weapon, but 500m/s?!

Honestly I suspect allowing a 1 shot kill with a headshot at 300m is going to open a huge can of worms.

I don't know whether it is a very good idea or a very bad one.

I'm sure you've seen the other posts dictating yours and other opinions on the matter?

But no. I would not be happy as it would still be a limitation that had not existed before. It would just be paving a sorry road for the dev's least favourite playstyle. We've all seen that dance before, haven't we?

Besides, the new limitations make sharpshooting much more difficult for newer players, and maybe even discourage them from advancing into a playstyle that they would particularly enjoy. I know that if I hadn't gotten tired of being shot at by snipers I would have never given a second look at the rifles after my initial attempts to use them.

But I don't see why it would, or why already has. Why not complain about tanks off in the distance doing the same? Or why not Liberators? Or ESFs with their spamming rockets? Why just the infantry class that is supposed to do that?

But maybe it might just leave the players of PS2 a little bit happier in the end. Maybe just this once?

It is not a new thing. It may finally shake some people off of the nanoweave bandwagon. Last April or so nanoweave had changed and doubled in effectiveness, resulting in one hit kill headshots from killing players wearing rank 3 or above becoming immune to death by headshot outside of 57 meters from the sniper. Before that adjustment there was one hit kills for any bolt action shot to the head.

Was it overpowered then? The answer is no it wasn't. Dozens if not hundreds of snipers quit when this change was made official. This is where you may show concern, with a potential buff to the class's sniping ability, you are going to see a surge in infiltrator players like never before... This will likely cause even more whining and baby accusations from those who have spent the better part of the last year trying to rationalize needing an already low cert hobby in sniping. Inevetably this will get re needed.

The current live limitation is, as mentioned above, 57m or below if you want to kill a nanoweave 5 person. This is moved to 300m, which is the absolute maximum infantry renders in the game. At this point you're complaining for the sake of complaining, with no real problem. In fact, this is the best possible resolution for snipers, guaranteed headshots at any distance possible in the game.

Not at all. Personally, I never really minded nanoweave, as it allows for some protection from a crack-shot sniper. (As I'd like to think of myself as. ) But no all other rifles are quite allot worse, as they are more difficult to use at longer ranges, and they do not reward a player who can hit a target from far away with them. It's one bonus for two downsides. It would have been three had snipers such as myself complain about the ludicrous nerf.

What exactly is your complain? Because the currently suggested change in PTS is vastly superior to what we have today on live servers. The only thing better would be to make bodyshots 1-shots beyond a certain range.

The sad ranges on the other, non heavy-bolt-action rifles. That is what my main concern is, at least what I think has even an echo of a chance to be saved from yet another unneeded nerf. Not to mention, with the nanoweave nerf, sniper rifles would have actually had a one-sided benefit regardless. The devs just nerfed them for no real reason. So you see, I do not see this as a buff, when the rifles would have been indirectly buffed without developer intervention. What was added was a nerf to sniper rifles. To "balance" them, which really only reduces their ability to do what they did prior to the changes.

So you wanted the nanoweave nerfs implemented but not all the changes that were made because nanoweave existed in that form revoked. UBGL still do 30% more damage than normal, splash from vehicles being higher and all the other things that were adjusted (even normal weapon damage) to account for the extra 250 health.

If you are trying to use a semi-auto sniper rifle in the same fashion as a bolt-action, you're doing it wrong. A headshot is a good opening attack, but bodyshots are the key.

Don't be afraid to spam. The maximum possible rate of fire will make bloom uncontrollable, but a slightly slowed trigger finger can keep it tight. In every single situation where you aren't explicitly "sniping" from a nearby mountain into a base, the semi-autos will murder everyone under the sun before they even know which way to run, especially since cloak removes so much pressure from taking aim.

The semi-auto scout rifles just don't retain enough power for my liking, and the screen-overlay scopes have an advantage in that they stay visible even when cloaked, unlike the 4x optics and below.

This is just one of those cases where TR and VS actually have no idea how to use their own weapons, and reach for their 100-cert bolt actions too soon. It simply isn't overpowered, nor is it able to let someone have complete domination over a group of other players, it's just a powerful tool for someone who can become nearly invisible.

I remember reading a PTS note about how high end rifles have a OHK range of 250-280, and the low end rifles are 150. i can't remember exactly for sure but besides that, many people believe NW shouldn't have any effect on head shots. Though it's funny people complain about the Sniper's OHK when there's going to be so much raging over the people who excel in CQC head shotting with any other gun and can take you out with 1-3 quick taps.