We really don't need a buff to the CARV or the MSW-R, I do love how that basically paints the Butcher as the worst thing ever to hit Auraxis, which it could well be. Worth pointing out that VS is out in front for nearly all of that, directive or not. I betcha the class is as much at fault for the overperformance as the weapon itself.
Nahh, it's actually not at terrible as it seems, but it is the worst of the three directive LMG's. And VS is out front only in KPU and average hours played as HA so it does make sense since those two are related. KPH (non directive of course) is actually super balanced the higher the BR goes with TR at 41.95, VS at 41.80, and NC at 41.69 at BR100 which is stupidly close considering how different the various faction weapons function. TR actually play HA second most though which is why their KPU needs to be looked at since it's under-performing.
I've never actually used it, so I can't really comment. If I'm understanding you here, you're suggesting that the numbers look too high due to population imbalances?
Me either, but it's obviously performing the worst of the directive LMG's, but it's still performing incredibly high. Possibly. A better measure than just looking at KPU and KPH would be KDR, but only DA stats does that and it's not over the past 30 days like oracle so things like past over or under performance means it's a bad metric to look at. That KPH is about equal across the board adds more to support that theory though.
I personally think that the reason the Betelgeuse is preforming better is tied to the play style forced by the heat mechanic. As the user your more aware if how many shots you need to take then break contact with the enemy to cool down. Compared to my Orion I look and go oh I have 25 rounds left I can push for one more kill then, which can lead to over extension or fall back while reloading and an angry hostile on your tail. With the Betelgeuse you can either A: keep pushing till you need your shields to recharge and only slowing down your push to cool your heated weapon. (only works when no one is shooting you(this does happen more often then it should, Hypothesis to many players on NC and TR have a serious lack of situation awareness or major case of tunnel vision)) B: Shoot and Scoot by moving cover to cover and only engaging the enemy on your terms.
Yet they don't have nearly the same level of usage or killcount. And those stats are inflated because of small use- and because they are purchased by characters later on, they often are not in the hands of idiot noobs who drag the KD down. I can say as a user of all above weapons, the Orion outclasses both of those other two weapons by far. IF the Orion were to lose 0.75x ADS and gain bullet drop, it would be balanced with the MSW-R.
Nope. Stats for Q4 (BR75-100) Orion usage: 174.6 MSW-R Usage: 229.9 Anchor Usage: 217 Stats for BR 100: Orion usage: 65.8 MSW-R usage: 114.3 Anchor usage: 125.3 And in those two categories the Orion is still inferior to both the Anchor and MSW-R in both average KPH and KPU.
Alexkruchev's argument was that the Orion's numbers were depressed because it was used more than the Anchor/MSW-R and that the Orion is doing better than what the stats actually say due to players using it more. I posted usage numbers for Q4 & BR100 (where the Orion is outclassed by those two weapons in KDR/KPH) that directly counters that since the Orion is used less than those two weapons. So while it's true that the Orion is used a ton at lower BR levels, that usage tapers off where it's (a) used less than the MSW-R/Anchor and (b) still outclassed by the MSW-R/Anchor in terms of KDR/KPH.
I probably should just keep my mouth shut but at Q4 you have another issue that throws off the performance metrics of the Orion, and that's the Betel. At Q4 most players who play any serious amount of VS HA (that is they are reasonably competent HA players) are going to have and be using the BJ over the Orion, stats even show this, so most of the players still using the Orion at that point are the people who, for whatever reason haven't unlocked the Betel, which means they most likely don't play HA very often and therefore are less competent at it (obviously there are exceptions to this). Regardless is obvious the Orion is not blowing the Anchor or the MSW-R out of the water. The three are fairly close no matter how you argue it, and it's likely the Anchor is performing the best of the three, though not by so much that gives NC some ridiculous advantage. The big advantage for the Orion of course is it's completely free, while the Anchor is very expensive, MSW-R isn't free but (at least it used to be) fairly cheap. The elephant in the room remains the Betel. Nothing in the TR or NC arsenal is even in the running when compared to it. If it performed slightly better than the Anchor and MSW-R you would here grumblings but that's it, but it's not slightly better it's in a league all by itself.
In terms of the hard stats, the Orion is inferior to neither of those weapons in CQC, and is at least competitive (Identically so) with the MSW-R. (Afterall, which one has no bullet drop at all?, Long range strongpoint right there!). The Anchor is a nice gun. But it's nothing to write home about when compared to the other NC options, and is easily blown out of the water by the Orion in the stats which matter in the current meta. Nevermind I think we should be folding the Betelgeuse stats in on top of the Orion stats, as they are essentially the same weapon. (Overheat and some minor tweaks, usually buffs for the Bgeuse). Which would alter those stats quite a bit. Also, ran the Orion last night. Felt like a god. Again.
The Orion is a more accurate BG without the heat mechanic, so hardly the same gun. I have it, I have it auraxed, and I can tell you flat out that the reason why the BG is so good is that it's trivial to farm bad players with, but if you go up against an equally skilled MSR-W or Anchor wielding opponent you're flat out going to loose. Feel free to ask literally any of the top HA players if they agree with me on that because I'll bet you real money they do. I will absolutely agree with people that the BG needs to be nerfed because like I said, it's trivial to farm bads with it in ways that only things like the old HE prowler or lolpods could do, but to say that the Orion is better than the TR or NC equivalent is just flat out wrong, and anyone that says otherwise has literally zero idea what they're talking about.
If you lose with a BG OR an Orion to an Anchor, you are a bad player. The Anchor doesn't do near the DPS of the other weapons around. It's not even in the same league. Anyone with a brain who has used all mentioned weapons will come to the same conclusion.
I have no problem using the Orion or my Betelgeuse for that matter... i mean i have over 9K kills with the thing. i would hope i wouldn't have an issue. Ive found that the MSW-R is easier to get that clutch head-shot, or place a few follow up hits on a target more than 60 meters out. it dosent have as good of a hip COF which is kinda meh, but it has a bit more range to it which makes up for it.
Categorically false. With head shots factored in the Anchor will actually out DPS the Orion, and the Anchor is an incredibly accurate head shot machine, much more so than the Orion and BG.
If thats the case im sure if the chance came about the VS wouldnt mind swapping the orion and BG for the carv and butcher? And hell, while we are at it we will give up our best lmg, the mswr for something really rubbish, say the SVA? I know the forum response, but if that happened in game i wouldnt be suprised to see TR numbers suddenly swell and HA class actually start being used....
