can anyone explain the current lib hate to me?

To the people claiming that a three person vehicle should be able to kill a one person vehicle, let me ask you something: Is it fair that a three person vehicle carrying two people should be able to kill two two person vehicles at the same time? At least pre-buff, a good AP tanker could really scare off a lib, or maybe if he was lucky, kill it. Now, a lib comes in, tankbuster+shredder/daltons you, reloads, does it to your buddy, then flies off and repairs. Maybe if it was slower, it would be better.

Without even reading everything.

Libs got a revamp and therefore attention which means they're the flavor of the month.

Are there SOME things about it that are OP in certain situations? Yes. But there's also people complaining about things on it that haven't been changed since launch that no one has ever complained about before purely because it's the thing to be doing right now.

NO NO NO ABSOLUTELY NO. Skyguard needs a nerf on its range. Thermals need to be nerfed too. If that isnt enough further nerf lib guns vs infantry.

The last thing we need to do is buff skyguard. Its such a frustrating griefer weapon to fight against imo. Incredibly boring and overpowered to use.

Dont buff skyguard, or even talk about doing so.

ONE person in a skyguard should NOT be a match for THREE people in a lib. Period thats 1v3 and the skyguard costs less resources. Not to mention that if you know how to use cover said lib cant ever kill you in a skyguard.

Now you get 2 skyguard which is 150 more resources and 1 less person than a lib and if the skyguards cant kill every airplane in the area who doesnt fly away, then they are very simply very bad.

The last thing we need is for ONE guy in a skyguard to be able to keep the skies clear as it already only requires two people to do that.

Really the problem is more about thermals than anything. Even playing smart its impossible to hide from thermals.

I'm not necessarily talking about the weapon itself, but the "weapon system" (lighning+skyguard) in some way that increases survivability (or at least comparative ttk) against libs, but doesn't effect skyguard vs esf or ordinary lighning vs aircraft.

Why should 1 person be able to easily kill 3?

Because they ruin any fight that is less than 48 v 48

they are the only vehicle that can take and give as much damage as they do, it's mostly the versatility that's "too" good

As I'm sure you're aware, the mag went from being screwed to being completely trashed by libs.
Meanwhile the prowler and vanguard went from having a fair chance to being screwed.

Interesting how the Mag is still even more buggered than the other two. ._.

Nothing really changed against competent Lib crews. If I want a tank dead, it's going to die even if it can one shot me.

balance

So very much this, but it needs to happen in conjunction with some changes to the bases themselves:

1) less of them
2) better base design that lets players get from the spawn room to the guns / vehicle pads / whatever without being shelled into oblivion
3) better base design that lets players know how to get from the spawn room to (insert location here).

It's something I really miss from PS1: signage in bases. Something telling me 'you want a tank? go this way!'

That's a huge part of the problem: the base guns aren't horrible, but unless it's an air tower they're often unmanned because of how much of a trek it is from the spawn room to the gun platform - and how likely it is that the liberator will bomb you into oblivion long before you're anywhere near the gun that can be used against it.

Beeeeecause Skyguards are overly specialized AA cannons that should, even by themselves, present a clear and present danger to aircraft? Also would force ground troops to coordinate with aircraft to take out AA tanks?

That's true.
But now there's more of the not-fully-competent crews, and what would punish them with 'loss of craft' in the past will now only leave them damaged.
+ there's flat out more of them.
And ESFs are still trying to ground pound instead of protecting the tanks.

Fun times.
(not really, it even served as one of those proverbial drops that broke the dam)

I 100% agree the comp armor thing was silly

My only real issue is the nerfing of skill based ways to take a Liberator down.

1. If a Liberator gets hit by a decimator or the standard dumbfire launcher it should do massive damage, and only take 2 hits without composite to take a Liberator down and 2 Decimator shots should always take a Liberator down other than maybe at Max composite level in which you'd have 10% health left. Unless you're hovering in place or moving super close to the ground in a predictable route you shouldn't even be getting hit by dumbfires, and this was a way for skilled players to get rid of the sit and spam Liberator player types.

2. Tank Shell resistance against Liberators shouldn't have been tweaked other than for maybe HE shells since they aren't meant for firing at vehicles to begin with. I honestly don't think damage should've been changed at all, as hitting a fast moving Liberator that wasn't moving predictably was never the easiest thing to do, and if the Liberator was doing the circle of death maneuver it was even more challenging. Before this change Liberators trying to face rush tanks with the tank buster would be blown up if the tank saw it coming, if the Liberator flanked the tank with the tank buster, then the tank died which I felt was balanced. It's kinda like pre nerf rocketpods against MBT's except it was more balanced because 1. The Liberator was slower and easier to hit, 2. The Liberator has to get closer to TB then an ESF needed to rocket pods. However now with full composite a Liberator can face rush even a lock down Prowler and win the fight or go head to head with a uber shield AP Vanguard without fear, and for the Magrider any glimmer of hope that may have existed to defeat a Liberator was extinguished.

The MBT is the most expensive mechanized unit in the game, the Liberator was already its hard counter, however now even horrible tactics + composite armor can result in a Liberator victory, and hover spamming with impunity and then being hit by an HEAT/AP MBT still gives the Liberator plenty of time to run away. Rewarding bad tactics and nerfing an interesting/skilled way for a MBT to defeat one of its biggest threats was a bad call in my opinion. The tank nerf against Liberators doesn't surprise me as much as the dumbfire nerf does, SOE has almost never shown competence when it comes to tanks in the game, but this change makes it seem like SOE wants infantry to get farmed more by Liberators, and even bad hovering ones. Then again considering how poorly thought out and tested the Liberator update was (Duster being basically useless and the composite Liberator taking 9 HEAT shells to take down case in point), I really shouldn't be surprised of that either.

Because that applies to every other vehicle? The Bang bus Sundy or a MBT (both being a lot more resource intensive) can both easily be taken down by a single person using C4/Mines/AV turret as those are direct hard counter to vehicles. If you don't want to go the infantry route you can pull an ESF/lightening/Harrasser/1 man Lib (and Flash if you're really good) to kill it as well.

Now try to create the same list for a Lib and see what you end up with taking into account it's a lot cheaper on resources; move at a much higher speed AND has the ability to fly (i.e. additional maneuverability that a Sundy or tank could only dream off).

Why so G2A turrets can be the new focus of crying? They screwed up big time and only just fixed Mana AV turrets (somewhat) and now you think they should make air a pointless play style? HA, JU CRAY.

I like the 3 crew lib argument, everyone know lib are never played in 1/3 or 2/3.
I laugh at people who say lib aren't OP. Everything that have firepower, armor and speed is OP.


Now, people had to choose to nerf one of these 3 ability. (not both)
Reduce Firepower :
Lib weapons shouldn't be anti-everything weapon, none of them should be AA dedicated.

Reduce armor :
Lower liberator effective HP against all threat.

Reduce speed :
Change lib acceleration/speed/agility to near the same as a galaxy.

Personally, I think they should nerf lib firepower or speed, but not lib armor.

I agree with basically everything you said, i think lib armor is fine, except for the buff to tank, dalton, and dumbfire rounds should be walked back. Especially the dalton, this change alone made solo libs basically the best way to deal with libs as you can tank the dalton shots while you get into range to put a full tank buster mag into them and thats if they actually see you coming, lol, and the shredder doesn't have the oomph to drop a lib like the old dalton did against solo tank buster libs.

you would be wrong. I know skyguards hurt them, but that changes nothing about what I said

+1

been saying that since forever. should be far slower.