A simple explanation why fighting the Vanu is frustrating and often boring

It is the SAME reason that the VS zerg all the time, moreso than the NC and TR. It's their faction trait.

The VS weapons offer the very real advantage of having much greater accuracy at range. Lower bullet drop, less recoil on their weapons. Basically, this allows any given Vanu force to be more spread out than an NC force or any TR force. This ability to spread out and cover more territory lends itself well to squad play and platoon play.

If you are besieged by Vanu, there's a much larger chance you'll be shot from somewhere, a much MUCH larger chance compared to the NC and TR. So, fighting the VS in comparison can be quite the chore since in a LOT, a LOT, a LOT, A ******* LOT of situations, there will be no point in doing anything against them unless you have overpop, due to the fact that their fire cover is so much more widespread. More of the base is covered and inaccessible, and any given area is covered by more gunfire compared to the TR and NC.

And that is why people absolutely hate fighting the VS.

cuz we that good breh?

Not the only reason, but it certain doesn't make them any better to play against.

Nonsense... if you actually go LOOK at the stats of the weapons, you'll see that recoil falls into two categories - controllable (i.e. vertical recoil) and uncontrollable (i.e. horizontal recoil).

The reason I class vertical recoil as controllable is that it's almost identical every time (barring FSR). Thus, it can be compensated for easily. Horizontal recoil, on the other hand (with some exceptions) tends towards "shake" which is radically harder to control because of inherent unpredictability. The primary limiter on shake is horizontal tolerance - and VS weapons are routinely the-same-or-worse than their TR/NC counterparts.

Yes, VS has easy vertical recoil - but that's the one that's easiest to control. Horizontal recoil, however, is where they're generally lacking so, once again, an "anti-VS" post turns out to be ignorant hate-trash. Good going, OP. Fail harder next time for my amusement!

If I come up against a co-ordinated, intelligent enemy force there is a much better than even chance they will be VS.
If I play Vanu I am more likely to be on the winning side for the same reason.

End of story.

There are perhaps 3 or 4 weapons that actually benefit from the no-bullet drop, the scout rifles and semi auto snipers, even then I don't know that there are that many players bad enough to actually be bothered by bullet drop more than the travel time and need to compensate for people actually running.
At the range where bullet drop actually matters, you're using bolt action snipers and none of the VS 'bolt-actions' get the faction trait.
As for recoil, I don't particularly play the other factions so much, but when I did I didn't find their weapons unmanageable or anything, hell lately I've just been seeing people spamming shotguns for some reason.
Otherwise the only real factor for victories in this game is numbers, more annoyingly is the fourth factions, but it looks like Daybreak doesn't care about that, hell with the new capture system they seem to want to promote it.

This

not to say there aren't intelligent coordinated players on NC and TR though, we're just more likely to attract more of them. Planetside 2 can be interpreted as a social experiment, the lore is written in a way that makes the 3 factions appeal to the 3 types of people.

TR: People who value order in society, stability in government, unity.

NC: Those who value freedom in society, democracy in government, liberty.

VS: Those who value intelligence in society, wisdom in government, humanity.

So lets add drop to the Saron HRB, the PPA/L-PPA and the Scythe nose guns and see if the Vanubs still say no bullet drop is a useless trait.

/thread

Giving the current version of the PPA projectile drop would be a significant buff. Currently, when three quarters of your magazine fire in a wildly different direction then what you are aiming at, the rounds just keep going, blasting uselessly off into the horizon. I would love it if the round would actually have a predictable drop, granting it a chance to actually hit your target. Please, give the PPA drop, it might be somewhat useful that way.

The guns I can think of offhand that no-drop is actually beneficial on: Saron, Lancer, Vortex, Eidolon to an extent, Semi auto rifles ... And that's all. For that, the VS have almost universally less projectile velocity on all of it's small arms. Personally, when i'm aiming at something downrange, I don't care about having to compensate 2-3 pixels above my target's head for headshots, and aiming center mass yields a hit whether you have nodrop or not, save for taking suppressed shots vs targets 300+ meters downrange. I would much rather have that +30-50 m/s projectile velocity.

At range, the lack of round velocity is as difficult to compensate for as horizontal recoil. When rounds are slower, you need to lead targets to a significantly greater degree, and moving in an unpredictable pattern makes dodging quite a bit simpler.

At point blank, neither drop nor velocity really matter - and I honestly don't notice nodrop on small arms when swapping between factions. (Minimum of 800 hours on TR / NC, bout 2500 on VS, if I had to guess.) The VS pays an extremely high price for it's lack of projectile drop in general, since nearly it's entire arsenal sacrifices velocity for usefulness on perhaps three or four vehicle mounted weapons.

As for drop on Scythe nose guns, i find that post effective-range nerfs that went out on the vast majority of vehicle secondaries, the range at which round-drop matters is the range at which you do minimum damage with a low degree of accuracy: As in, you are better off not firing and attracting attention when you could be closing in on your target, potentially unseen.

When I play Vanu I rarely see medics and also very few engies unless something needs repairing. I don't have any hard numbers, but mostly HA mixed with some infils sounds about right.

It is likely because vanu HA directive reward is interesting and weapons for medics (and engies) on vanu side generally sucks. I personally can see no reason to spend a lot of time going through horrible weapon aurexiums for medics and engies when it is fun doing it for HA. If other vanus think the same it certainly gives a clear bias towards HA.

I don't know if this is the same situation for other factions?

A quick look through http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ will give a general impression as to which faction pulls the most of what classes. After a glance, and without having done any actual math on it - the VS use the most heavies. The NC uses the most Infiltrators and medics (TR is a close second for medics for sheer numbers, and on top for kills) ... and the same appears to be true of carbines. (Just sorting monthly weapon stats by average uniques and looking at the top dozen-ish)


Personally, I main engie whichever faction i'm on. My favorite by far is the TR carbine lineup (Lynx / Jag specifically), close second is the Serpent for the VS, with the NC being kinda meh for my usual preferred playstile. The typical engagement distance of 'you stepped on my foot!' in most bases favors the TR's general trait of "MOAR BULLETS." for the most part. The VS weapon lineup has always felt odd to me, as it combines a rather odd lineup of traits that don't work very well with one another (Nodrop + slow velocity, the one redeeming feature is the general lack of horizontal recoil) - excepting the Orion, which handles like a SMG on steroids with less fire rate, and greater effective range.

After so much forum whining and exorbitant amount of expressions of #VanuOP, I gave it a shot. Turns out I hate their starter guns and 50% of their arsenal because it reminds me too much of NC and TR and it's almost the same thing, guns aren't spectacular as everybody preaches and the range advantage is small, better than TR but about on par with NC.

I realized that every single thing can be frustrating in this game, A2G? check. SkillHammer and M30 Mustang ScrubFarmer? check. Dakkadakkadakkadakkadakka, Lynx and Prowl-tillery? check.

Everybody uses their best equipment and plays to win. Every faction has annoying things, like the Mustang NoobHammer and the SkillHammer for NC, or prOrion, Battlejuice and Light PPA for VS, and the astonishing dakka of the TR. But instead of whining look at the things that other factions get annoyed by, like Prowl-tillery and CQC-midrange supremacy of TR, or the "totally skillful, balanced and hard-mode" NC equipment. It's called "asymmetric balance" son, everybody's got annoying things with faction flavor.

And the "Advantages", the only one that is actually important for every weapon is lower CoF and recoil, which is good, but TR has more dakka and NC has more damage, the reloads are also a benefit, no bullet drop is a joke only useful for Battle rifles, snipers and long range weapons with low velocity (AKA none).

Stop with the cancerous #VanuOP attitude, their arsenal is in general too similar to TR and NC and needs revamps to be unique, instead you are all whining so VS has downgrades of those weapons.

And yes, I am aware that my VS account has 6+ K/D and my TR one has 1.66 K/D, but it's not because their weapons are superior, it's that my TR account is almost year old and I played back in the days when I was an idiot, now I've created a VS account when I got gud so I can see their weapons.

Is it the summer heat, or why is the reasoning, why vanu must be clearly OP, getting more an more absurd in forumside?

@ QQmore. Give the Saron the same drop and CoF the Enforcer has and I would gladly take that change. In fact, at ranges where the saron would start to benefit from not having a bullet drop, it also starts to suffer from its high CoF. The need to wait 0.5s after every shot to reset the CoF gives the saron less dps than a good gunner will have with the halberd at mid and long ranges.

This is how this thread will play out, to any number of pages.

• People will point out that VS wins most alerts, and try to prove that they are statistically OP.
• Vanu players will make insane arguments about how stats are misleading and they are really UP and VS are secretly the DBG whipping boys.
• Nobody will change their mind.
• VS will continue to win almost every alert.

Business as usual.

OP there was a time when I was thinking like you.
Now I mostly play as Vanu

So far I've received one non-answer and one person asking for a nerf to their own gun. These Vanu guys will literally say anything when you point things out to them to refute it.

You can have my enforcer, it's been nerfed so many times that the only reason anyone uses it over the halberd is because they certed it years ago when it was good.

I would trade the enforcer for the saron every damn day. No drop, accurate, good velocity, and the ability to mag dump close targets. It beats the enforcer hands down and the stats reflect this. Again you have a weapon that has everything with almost no drawbacks. A recurring theme with the popular VS weaponry.

As for the Scythes nose guns having both no drop and IIRC the highest velocity that speaks for itself. A lot of A2A fighting is done at fairly long distances where no drop certainly matters, unless you are hover dueling where high velocity is key. The Scythe has both. For the record at launch the Scythe had the slowest velocity but the reddit cryers got that buffed.

People complain about VS being OP as they win alerts
People complain about VS being OP to fight against and so don't

VS win alert

Cycle starts again.

Hint bring equal force to bear against VS co-ordinate and win.

NC/TR/VS equally OP (barring a few outlying weapons that are over performing or under performing i.e. ZoE usage vs Max shield usage, PPA vs Marauder).

When infantry is a problem bring it ESF's with rocket pods, the faction trait they have is not rocket proof. You can also just use snipers off on the side or behind them to pick them off. When vehicles are a problem my go to weapon is the ESF nose gun. My goal with it is simple annoy them, force them to pay attention to me and wait to see that little friendly HA to take care of it. With the scythe use terrain to your advantage or make them fly over a friendly zerg someone down there will be itching to pull a ESF out of the sky. Coordinate a friendly stinger site with a squad/platoon two sky guards will be more then enough to bring down the enemy air. Most importantly though always use team work in every scenario, there is no such time were not coordinating with your squad or faction in /region is a good thing.

i played on the vanu side on the cobalt just to see how can they win so many alerts,what i noticed after several hours of playing while i was going all over the map to the biggest fights to see how they move and behave i noticed not only most of them have no plan but
Most medics dont heal
Engies dont drop ammo
Infis dont even bother drop some recon,there is no freaking command line there is no cooperation what so ever so i jumped to the conclusion that the only reason they win is gun performance deference

Accuracy of the Enforcer and Saron is about equal across MBT/ Harassers at 52% Harasser and 37% for MBT

Enforcer is better at range (better TTK), better against infantry (1 hit kill against infantry right?) and has better alpha damage (for those targets already wounded).

52.9% +-9%
51.5% +-8.6%
38.2% +-7.8%
37.4% +-7.7%

Match the % accuracy to each weapon for a cookie