Wizard vs Warlock Analysis: Compiled Spell Statistics/DPS calculations Side by Side

I think warlocks granted will have a slight advantage in aoe's need a couple smaller 2-4k nukes, I had ot delete an entire row of icons in beta due to overwrites we warlocks lost 2 training option dd's bss and hvb that were on sepearte timers and still had nil distortion so when your only casting 1 true dd it's kinda a large hit. We did get a slight upgrade to soul flay but it wasnt able to compensate for 800 from both lesser dd's and the 40% damage hit to nil distortion.
Rough estimates btw
DD's:
Nil distortion: -700 damage in beta
Soul flay: +600 damage in beta
HVB: -800 ish +chance ends with a slight dot
BSS: -900 ish + health and power regen
Aoe:
Nil absolution becomes true aoe: up to 1700ish non-master 5 targets instantly.


Message Edited by Weekster on 08-29-2005 03:49 AM

1. It's swings and roundabouts between Icy Wind and Nil Absolution - Icy Wind does higher damage and is less likely to attract aggro while obviously Nil Absolution is better burst AE dps. It's situational which one is better. The T5 training choices reflect the Wizard=Single Target, Warlock=AE that SOE are clearly pushing.

2. Surging Tempest is my biggest single beef in all of this it's the single most unbalancing thing in the entire spell lineup by far. But becuase we know it's not really a level 50 spell and until it's relevelled and we see if Warlocks get anything comparable, then we won't be in a final position to judge.

Grinding to 60 warlocks will be on par and do well, but I think on raids our use will be even more situational is what really the issue is now.
Message Edited by Weekster on 08-29-2005 03:51 AM

For one, Orgingrinder is not a wizard, he is a dirge. My alt is a wizard. When I first started playing this game, I was under the impresion that Wizards and Warlocks were about the same thing, except had different based nukes (wiz = cold / fire.. warl = pois / dis). Game came out, both dps sucked badly. Few months passed, revamp came in and then dps was increased dramatically. Warlocks now did incredible damage with the nukes provided. Wizards, well they are still more or less waiting for this. Wizards in current game have no big AoE. No true AoE. Their BIG nuke (ice comet) is laughable because of the resists on it, and the damage on it pales in comparisson to the damage on devastation.

In the current game of eq2live, wizards vs. warlocks is not even a fair comparison.

In beta, wizards actually get an AoE that is good. They actually get true AoEs. They actually get some punch added to their DDs. So everyone who made a wizard with the hopes of playing a character with one thing in mind "blow stuff up" will be satisfied with the changes. Wizards will become very good burst / AoE damage dealers, which I think in everyones eyes is what they should have been to begin with, yet it's taken nearly 10 months to actually get to that point.

Where does that leave warlocks? I dont really know to much about warlocks, but whenever i think about a warlock, short burst uber dps never comes to mind. Aren't the true actuality of warlocks a person who summons demons to fight for him, while landing killer dots? The actual mythology of a warlock i mean? I dunno, maybe that's just me.

Wiz vs. warlock dps... So... for the past.. hmm, what now 5? 6 months? warlocks have absolutly crushed wizards on parsers. Now that wizards have made a comeback in beta, everyone on live is freaking out and crying about how "warlocks" aren't the uber power they once were. The parses from Ranvier and Ennis are from lvl 60 raids (64 - 67^^^ mobs) and they are still pushing a lot of dps. Why are people so concerned with "how much solo / group" dps warlocks / wizards do? a) they are in beta to test the hard stuff, the actual raid mobs.. xp mobs would be trivial dont ya think? b) If they parse 300 on a lvl 67^^^x4 mob, wouldn't ya think that you'd do a little more dps on the **** mid 50s solo mob you want parsed?

It's funny reading posts from arguably the greatest dps in game atm, whining cus they are perhaps getting bumped down the food chain a couple notches. If you want some real complaints, go read the troubador forums, or any fighter forum, cus their dps has been cut in half, if not more.

We've been through this before again and again. Warlocks want the dps that SOE themselves say we should have - that is equal to Wizards and higher than everyone else. It's really very simple.

The raid parses from beta are encouraging but they only show a part of the picture. There IS more this game for 90% of the players than just raiding. With the exception of the Surging Tempest nuke, I believe most Warlocks have no real issue with any of the newly aquired power of their Wizardly counterparts, it's the long list of patently broken Warlock spells that most of us are worried about.

Oh, and one more thing that you are right about - there are classes that are in a far far worse state than Warlocks at the moment. Given the completely screwed state of melee in beta at the minute we Warlocks should be thankful for small blessings


Message Edited by Magiocracy on 08-29-2005 02:54 PM

So you have established that on raids, warlocks arent too far behind wizards? No they are clearly ahead of them on raid mobs, hence wizards are ahead of them on single target mobs. Deal with it..

...and if that's the tradeoff - Warlocks = Raid DPS, Wizards= XP DPS, I wonder how many Wizards would be happy ? I'm betting not many.

and beside this 90% of non RADIng content wizards surpass with huge fore, and for tradeoff warlocks have 10% little possibility to draw aggro and die quickly because of broken mezz etc.
Nice tradeoff.

If SOE doesn't fix the raid resist problems for wizards in DoF many wizards will still be unhappy and justifiably so.
Message Edited by MilkToast on 08-29-2005 12:30 PM

Of course and this resist problem had nothing to do with class balance or combat system etc.. just SoE's incredible carelessness. Today the resists are bad for Wizards but tomorrow same can happen to Warlocks untill next expansion. Want to bet lots of big mofos in the desert are poison immune ? :smileywink:

Message Edited by GLScooby on 08-29-2005 01:19 PM to remove some of the language and excessive flaming, even it's quoted in the next post, LOL.
Message Edited by GLScooby on 08-29-2005 01:21 PM

Alot of posts in here saying that Surgign Tempest is the cause of some of the problems, IMHO I am more then happy for wizzies to get ST,

I would just like to see a bit of balance between the 2 classes, so therefore I would like SOE to take away one our useless, pets or maybe our totally stupid teleport spell and give us DD nuke that compares, sorta like icy wind compares to our best AoE.

I would also like to say that I aggree with other posts in here where people are asking people who have NO EXPERIANCE with a sorcerer of ANY description to show some consideration before posting, there input into the woes of our class are probably not that relevant, and flaming people who have legit complaints about the direction of warlocks is only counter productive and reduces the threads to flame wars, wich suxors cause I want to get issues resolved for the good of the class.

I also am more than happy for Wizards to get ST - as long as we get something comparable. We know that Dark Infestation is being completely reworked, so with any luck that'll be our ST :smileyhappy:

Will have to wait and see.

Yeah, I am also really hopefull that the random wipe the party spell (infestation) get reworked into a spell that we can use without drawing aggro from our own group let alone the mobs :smileyvery-happy:

But we'll still have our wonderful AoE teleport spell so we can play "Where's the raid mob gone ?" :smileyhappy:

Ok I have 3 level 50s on beta with one of them being a warlock and after a lot of testing this is what I have found. Our single target dps has been nerfed to oblivion first of all. Our henevas and bss having gone, we now get soul flay ~300 dmg and our nil distortion does about 900 with 12 sec recast compared to 9 sec recast for ball of flames line for wizards. BUT, the main disparity is with the new master2 options. Our master2 options are all 2nd tier spells and usually aes whereas wizards get their main nukes and their main dps spells with master2 options. Also, wizards get a 2nd ice comet and their get a devastation equivalent in their icy wind now. Don't tell me the longer duration makes a big difference, during fights even now (fights are longer in beta) the whole duration lasts that long for the whole fight and in addition you do not get as much aggro with a longer dot duration. So we get a spell which lasts 10 seconds and a 25% chance to decrease physical mitigation by 400 - wow! We also don't have an immolation spell all we have are our aes which are power killers. Most people only look at the dmg numbers and never look at anything else - especially power usage. Right now, if you try to keep up in dps you will be on 20% power after every fight as you would have to use your aes which are power eaters, huge cast times and basically aggro magnets, so you will probably die, but hey at least you made the most of your power before you died.

Ok so wizards get 2 ice comets (wizards ice comet got boosted also btw - does about 4k-5k), their ball of flames line is 9 sec cast opposed to our distortion line which is 12s, AND they can also get it to master2, we can't, and they have a devastation equivalent, AND they still have their immolation line. In beta wizards are soloing heroics with ease. So the warlocks main spells do less and have higher recast than the wizards 2nd and 3rd tier spells. What's going on here SOE? Warlocks, after a lot of testing with a swashbuckler, wizard and assassin are about 5th on the dps ladder currently. I's sure I've missed something since I have been testing all this time and haven't posted whilst testing but I have been discussing a lot with my fellow dps classes. Once again, did the devs have a late night before the day they looked into warlocks or does SOE have one person testing all 24 classes?

Before this combat revamp, wizards needed a boost but they could definitely keep up on single targets and on multiples warlocks were the superior, but right now, warlocks do 1/3 of wizards in the revamp.

violatortn wrote:
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Guys, seriously, do you ever read anyone elses posts?
Yes, I do read other people's posts. That's where I compiled all this data from.
Did you read Ranvier's? Did you look at his screenshots? Did you see the parses? Seriously, he was way ahead of every parse, and I am more inclined to believe the posts of FOH, being that they are testing the lvl 60 with masters.
When every single Wizard spell is either equivalent or puts out greater DPS, you have to ask the question, how would a Warlock ever outparse a Wizard? It is clear that Ranvier, with NUMERICALLY INFERIOR SPELLS was pushing aggro much harder than his Wizard counterpart.
Come on, look around before you complain.
I did look around, for a long time. I spent many hours compiling this and preparing this information. That is why I am complaining.
I know everyone feels strongly about their class, and they want the best for them, but its still a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good class, and they dps seems to of went up also. And, from what else the FOH guys have posted, warlocks still use less mana. I don't see what could be the problem.
Is Warlock still a good class per current implementation? Yes. Is it demonstrably inferior DPS wise when compared to the Wizard class, which is supposed to be equal? Yes. No Warlock is asking for superior spells. We want equivalent DPS. We don't have it per current implementation, that's why we're calling attention to it so it can be fixed before these spells go live.

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Alezara
Warlock of the 50th Order
-=Pandemonium/Unrest=-

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Violatortn wrote:
First, I want to apoligize for posting in the first place. To see so many warlocks complaining about wizards getting a needed boost ticked me off.
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Personally, I am glad that Wizard's are getting a needed boost after many months of dealing with INFERIOR DPS SPELLS. I am not complaining about Wizard's finally getting buffed up. I am complaining because Wizards and Warlocks are supposed to be equal DPS. They are not. Warlocks are inferior. Look at the numbers.

Alezara
Warlock of the 50th Order
-=Pandemonium/Unrest=-