Why is heroic gear now better than raid gear!

Yes, there definitely would. The problem isn't that this zone drops better gear, it's that is drops better (or even the same) level of gear but is FAR easier. As in laughably easy. You should never release a raid zone that is suppose to be current but is far easier than what is currently the easiest raid zone AND give it better or even equal loot. When you provide equal reward for less work, especially after people have put in months of work, then you undermine all the work that was done before. YES you have to do heroic content to reap the rewards but you still have an issue that I haven't seen raised yet. Weaker raid forces will now be able to acquire gear that they couldn't before and it closes the gap in needed skill for raid forces to gear up VERY fast.

Again, even if the loot was exactly the same the raid zone is MUCH easier so it has altered progression. Also, in order to really raid AS you still need a respectable amount of heroic gear. You couldn't just use raid gear from the previous expansion and gear up on new raid gear. I know most of my raid force went out and got fully gemed potent as fast as they could do so.

It may be a little disingenuous but a solid single group could do this entire zone.

On a time investment level it may be similar, although you definitely get more armor upgrades than the 3 red gems per week from AS that you need to get in order to have this level of gear, but that isn't the only thing to factor. I know most raiders feel that the quality of loot should be related to how tough the mob is that drops it. To get raid-quality loot you need to preform at raid-quality.

If the level of difficulty is intended then armor of perhaps potent 0/3 level should have dropped. Maybe even 3/3 potent I suppose, though that would have likely caused these same issues. Honestly the issue isn't the quality of loot as much as it is the difficulty of the zone. The zone should have been at least challenging but there are almost no script and the scripts that do exist are from a time when the game was in a much different state. People had far less AA and the DPS potential of a raid was far less even in scaled relation.
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It does promote that particular progression, but the raid is to easy and the original T1 raid was much harder. They retroactively changed the progression rules without any warning. This has completely trivialized AS. Besides the 3 red gems it drops it might as well not exist now.

to be fair, the gear differences of AS and ToV were razor thin already, so I can see where soe was coming from. their big issue is that they are just making the gear too close, so there is almost no where to go with new stuff. if they would just increase the gap in gear some like how it used to be.

It's a fine line, that they keep having to draw even finer lines on top of. How much space to leave between tiers (solo/heroic/raid) to allow growth between updates (ToV heroic to fabled-awakened heroic)?

If you leave a whole bunch of space between "solo" and "heroic" and "raid" gear to start with, the raiders complain that they have to get fully heroic-geared to survive an intro raid, and the SLR-buyers can faceroll non-raid content even harder than they can now. (If there was truly a way to keep raid gear out of non-raiding hands, they could perhaps do more.)

If you leave them closer together so the raiders can start raiding in last xpac's raid gear and SLR'ers don't invalidate the whole game, then you get what we have now: a ratonga's whisker between gear types, if not outright overlaps, especially in the mid-xpac updates.

The problem is this zone wasn't released with ToV. This is a rework of old zones. You do NOT need ToV to get these items. Since this zone drops so much jewelry, no point in doing SG as much now other than for a few pieces. How can you "fill in the gaps" with a zone that is probably 1 groupable with an amazing group?. This was never part of the expansion, noone knew that they would release these new zones TWO MONTHS later that would get the whole server raid quality jewelry/armor. The risk does NOT match the reward. AS drops crap other than 2 mobs. This zone is candy land for people that don't need to coordinate, don't need to "farm". You can come into this zone with arcane gear and ROFLSTOMP it. You could probably take 10 minutes burning each named and still survive just fine.

Also, the rares are now dropping in contested SoS... Pretty much the best armor in the game. I wouldn't use 5 pieces of it with no +sta but, Vulaak= pointless other than for tanks. So Xpac came out 2 months ago, and you make the content worthless with a FREE KOS UPGRADE PACK?. What in the hell Devs.

Can't edit for some reason..

Anyway, when ToV first came out, I had no issues with the closing of the gaps but this is ridiculous. Seriously, why did I pay for this xpac on BOTH accounts when I could have waited month or so to get some of the best loot available?. Everyone has an issue now because this is pretty much like putting in a solo zone that drops loot that is better than raid loot as free content. This is NOT "closing gaps" even further. This is just insane, there is no reason why these zones are THIS easy. There is no sense in progression right now. None. What is the point in getting the "edge" with ToVx4 jewelry when you can 1 group this new raid zone and get something similar?. With not as a nasty tradeoff like the horrible jewelry off Guardians x4. The gap was small enough already, now this is just a joke. The first 5 mobs in ToV are just LOL now considering the procs aren't THAT much better but yet you get the same stats in a zone that is 1 groupable?. Even SG that drops a +254 wrist is 10x harder than this joke of a zone. You actually had some choices with original launch ToV. Now it is just "LOL LETS GO TO LORD VYEMM".

Fix this garbage of content please.

Also- Nexus/Stratum/Labs etc was easy as is, last night, I 2 boxed Den of the Devourer and brought in 2 friends for the last named. Lol at these zones dropping loot with better procs/effects as a free update. Zones that are easier than original launch ToV zones are dropping loot that is better effect wise than the original drops...Makes perfect sense devs.

I was actually so happy that you guys released some challenging content with ToV and made most of it balanced with the rewards. Thanks for reminding me how you guys operate when it comes to itemization.

It should really be flagged as ToV content if it's not. Hard to argue with that. I don't think attacking the devs will do any good though.

I'm guessing a bit here, but the lack of scripts and ease of difficulty was probably a way to get content out to us faster, rather than burning many more resources on it. They at least gave the mobs high HP to prevent solo farming all the loot.

My guild 1 grouped LOLV the other night with ALTS! This zone has also been "solo'd" if you count the botters who 1 grouped it and are now selling the loot. This is a total abortion and really needs addressed. Please SOE speak on this?

On a side note, with everyone talking about The Fabled Laboratory of Lord Vyemm and how easy it is to 1 group with hardmode raiders that are most likely geared in TOV high end gear, any mention of the other 2 raid zones introduced in the update on Thursday with the 3 princes and the mutagenic outcast? Are they 1 group abe too or actually difficult? To be honest, if SOE had released fractured red gems at the same time as the KOS Fabled dungeons last Thursday, the majority of posts on this thread would have disappeared. It should come as no surprise for any raiders that have been around for a lengthy time that a new raid zone has not been tweaked properly and has scripts that need adjusted. Raiders will do what we always do, report the issues, adjust to the new mechanics and progress thru the content. I think they should scale up the difficulty some on Lord Vyemm but still make it less that AS, with the loss of players in this game gearing up additional players quicker is not a bad thing IMO.

Again so much wrong with the concepts posted above. People should not have to be psychic or expect SOE to change progression paths illogically and thus somehow know what to do when new gearing opportunities arise so as to not end up shafted from an unannounced significant and flawed gearing progression.

Also LOLv does not need HM TOV raid gear to 1 group. I guess you missed my post just above yours where it was 1 grouped with alts, alts I will add in mostly heroic gear.

This is not a good thing as you are trying to misdirect it to. More methods to gear up is good, "effectively giving" away second best in slot armor with nothing more than an investment of time and a barely conscious body to get that gear is a broken progression. I will add the jewelry is also better than that in AS and again requires much less effort and much less difficulty to obtain. Other than the red jewels and flagging there really is no reason to run AS. SOE has trivialized AS, a progression zone in their newest expansion in under 3 months. SOE has done this with a "raid" zone that can be 1 grouped in heroic gear! WHY?

VD is more difficult than LOLv, this is a sad state for the game to be in.

Okay, then what specifically do you purpose to change on Vyemm then just "make it harder", higher health on names and trash, timer limits on names before they become enraged, specific examples on what scripts are not working. Have any of you petition examples on fixes or is it easier to come to the forums stamping feet and saying nerf the drops in the new zone because AS sucks too much? What about asking for the AS zone reuse timer to be dropped down to 2 days and 20 hours, to increase rate of shining red gems? when you stated your 1 group of alts with gear mentioned, it is highly likely they were geared up in 3 gem potent from your previous posts of how much etyma you have sitting around and tokens. People do not need to be physic, just use some common sense as they have done things like this in almost every expac out there, remember when shard of hate was introduced how much turmoil that caused on trash loot drops being so good along with name drops? Sure the timing sucked on fractured gem introduction versus overcharged potent, but the raiding world is no where near as doom as gloom as you make it out.
In the first place for a raid of 24 to have have all of their slots over charged you will have to run that zone a minimimum of 24 times plus any other extras you have as fillers. Each name has a overcharge drop that will only work on a specific armor slot and only 1 drops at a time. So optimal raiding of a reuse zone of 2 days 20 hours means at the very best you are looking at 12 weeks of farming the zone to have everybody upgraded. If they fix the stuff that makes it 1 groupable that is a acceptable time frame to gear up max. With alt runs and the item being heirloom you can shave some time off in addition but that would run counter to you wanting the zone much harder in difficulty.

Besides there is still no answer on the other two raid zones introduced, are they easy or hard 1-4 groupable and decent loot?

We'll VD is harder than AS, basically find the path to the best gear and take it, and move on. This is an old game with a diminished player base
The best thing for this game is to do what ever keeps more people playing.

AoEs need to hit much harder, mobs need to hit harder, mob HP needs to be upped by a good amount. Since the zone itself doesn't have that many "complex" scripts, the only thing left to do is make the mobs 12x harder. Unless devs are planning to redo the scripts....

Would like a response from a DEV please.

Yes worry about the next 2 wings of TOV, that's where anyone who is serious about raiding should be concerned.

I just used examples in the past when they've done the exact same thing with gear to no outcry. Consider it my attitude of someone who can obtain better, but I see it as a good thing that people have access to loot that allows them to play more competitively. The expansion is a few months in and they implemented this because they wanted to see people working on the higher end content. Having to run instances until you get the potent piece you want, and then earning 270 etyma to upgrade it to 3/3 for each piece, then finding the applicable update pattern for that piece vs. others who might want it, is not instant gratification by any stretch.

You have to work for both and have options instead of just being stuck with one way to obtain gear. I feel that the zone existing as it is happens to be a good thing. I hadn't seen a pick-up raid on my server for any other raid zone until now. People are interested and willing to try because they now have a less challenging starter zone to get into. The loot is rewarding enough to inspire people who had just contented themselves with 3/3 potency. Everything I have seen from it suggests that it was good for the game.

So, we're not going to agree.

Were are not going to agree because you are talking apples to oranges. No one is complaining about earning potent. The issue is overcharged gems that create second best in slot raid gear which can be obtained by a single group of players in heroic gear. That is out of whack. All the stuff about earning potent has nothing to do with this thread.

Again stay on topic.

This is very dissapointing, even for casual raiders like us. We were to be able to progress to the moderate raid
from the easy one (AS).

The same hold for fabled instances, so we can clear the domination
and better gear drops from instances that can be cleared in AS gear by a chaotic group with no organisation,
and no real care when do use some ability or another ...

I know that some guild cleare the domination in quested/As gear, but they probably "abused" the mecanics (mainly using full immunity chains).

After running this zone a couple of times, one with a fairly reasonably geared (Lots of AS gear) crew and one with a fairly rag tag group (lots of alts ranging with Potent gear on the high end to quested cryptic on the low end) I don't see much difference in the difficulty with the exception of the complexity of the of the fights.

AS is "harder" in that the fights require more attention and have sophisticated scripts, but the gear check, at least on tanks and healers, is on par. A raid that can clear, or come close to clearing AS will not have much of a problem here, but a raid that may be struggling to take out the first 4 in AS will probably have difficulty in the new zone.

Frankly, I can't believe a single group in "heroic and quested armor" can clear this zone. Maybe if the tank and a healer or two are in ToV gear with the rest being in that heroic armor It could kill some of the fights, or even if the group had a significant amount of Energized Armor and Dominion gear but not with quest gear.

Clearly the zone is meant to be entry level raid content. The overcharged potent isn't really any better than Energized with a red gem, and the red gem is easier to get now. The jewelry is nice. Better than some of the jewelry in AS, but SOE has started to rethink the effects on Raid drop jewelry since the approach they took with the expansion wasn't popular.

People aren't going to suddenly bypass AS because of the new zone. AS is still Part of the progression and required content to get to ToV. Labs is just going to let slower raid forces speed advancement a bit giving more options to gear up and more sources for the loot.

SOE needed to add another source for raid gear to allow people to gear up enough for ToV and Avatars. They didn't need to add new tier of gear. I'm inclined to think they took the right approach here. From everyone I have spoken to, everyone enjoys the new content and drops, yet none of them feel it is making AS useless. I was on the fence about the mechanic of overloading the Potent armor, but at the moment, I think it's a pretty decent idea.

They could have dropped fractured red gems instead of the gems they are dropping, it would have been less drama from a raiders perspective.

The issue is, they set this up as PUR content for heroic geared players, the mistake was making it better than sloitted red gem gear. If you swapped the stats of the overgemmed and the red gemed gear, the system would be perfect.

But it's not really better. .1% on potency type stats, 1 point better on primary stats, 30 more on sta, but less mitigation. in the end it's a wash. If they didn't add the fractured red gem mechanic I could agree, but now that they drop, can be converted from potent, and can be crafted.

Overloaded Potent is still technically a raid drop, it just requires more effort on the heroic end. You can get slotted Energized armor without ever setting foot in a heroic instance. You can SLR energized armor without ever killing the mob that dropped it. You can't get potent without running Heroic instances yourself. It is possible to load up on Energized gear with only Plat, it is impossible to do so with Potent.

you do realize that is costs and takes more time for a 4/3 potent? that and 4/3 is Not heroic it is Raid drop armor that requires a lesser tier. Your choose is 4.3 for .1 more stats or energized for Alot more ligation. Basically you can take a 3/3 potent and Convert it to gemed Energized or a 3/3 potent and convert it to a 4/3 depending on the raid drop you get. Or if you really lucky you can just gem Energize from a dropped gem > basically you now have 2 alternate Raid paths to the same level that both take similar time