So what do you think of the DarkPaw Games announcement?

I am going to try and be optimistic and keep my salt to my cooking

Eh... I would disagree... Brad may have passed on, but the development and the community over there is far more active than it is here.

They are fully funded for all of their proposed tenants and goals already so it will see release someday. I am actually only lingering here still, until it does release. What I have personally seen and experienced with Pantheon will certainly be the last nail in the coffin on the EQ IP for myself and for many others.

lol, you're funny

The letter was bland at best and really didn't say anything as usual. And I don't see this really as a franchise at this point more like a sinking ship. EQ2 is on life support, surviving by store purchases mostly. At this point I've cancelled my PAY membership. Just my 2 cents like everybody else's. except.. I'm right.

Which part is funny?

That the development is more active?
That the community is more active?
That they are fully funded for release?
That Pantheon will end the EQ franchise for many people?

They actually have a vision for a game. SOE and subsequently DBG just keeps regurgitating the same "repeatable task hub" model every expansion with the amount of unique content dwindling each time. Not that I am happy about it, but the current state of the EQ IP is far from where it was when I started 20 years ago, and not in a good way.

Edit: I am going to try and be optimistic and keep my salt to my cooking

Like others, I smell a sell-off of assets and the "letter" was to reassure players that everything was alright with the game and nothing would change regarding life-time memberships. I hope this works out well for the EQ franchise since I have so much invested in this game.

Hopefully they are focused more on bringing in additional investment money for each title individually, instead of selling off these properties.

I hope you are right Siren.

No, it isn't. The EQ IP has two separate, playable games that are pushing out new content on a consistent basis (yes, even if it is only once a year, that is still "consistent"). The quality of that content is of course up for debate, but the fact of the matter is that you can actually play an EQ game, right now. VR has nothing but livestreams (many of which are of the same zone over and over) and newsletters, and there hasn't been a pre-alpha session in over a year.

I won't dispute that it certainly appears more active. However, when you don't have a playable game, what else is there to do except go on forums and discord and talk about it?

Are they? You know that for a fact? They have no announced timeline aside from vague statements about pre-alphas and alphas, and stated goals (not obligations). The only answer you'll get if you ask for a release date is "when it's ready." There is nothing saying that the money won't eventually dry up, or investors getting cold feet and pulling out. Star Citizen was "funded" several times over, and that's been in alpha pretty much forever.

That's a bold statement with very little substance other than questionable anecdotal evidence to back it up.

Talk is cheap.

I'm a VIP-level backer of Pantheon. so I certainly don't want to see it fail, but I'm also a realist so I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that it's going to be an EQ killer. At this point I'm not even certain it will ever see the light of day. I'd love to see it eventually release, if nothing else so that Brad's legacy and vision can live on. But it's been five years since I handed over that money and I see very little coming out of it other than a couple pre-alpha sessions, some livestreams, and a bunch of talk about "vision".


The announcement about Darkpaw doesn't change much from our perspective, but it does at least mean that now there is a specific demarcation between the various IPs that DBG publishes. It is hopefully a way to ensure Daybreak and Darkpaw don't go the way of Trion and basically screw their flagship product by trying to do too much with too little.

As another supporter of Pantheon for longer than I prefer considering I have to agree with Mountbatten in essentially all respects. Pantheon is like a religion - we support it based on faith not knowledge or specific information.

I hated that vision of what the next EQ2 would have been like. Glad it died.

With all due respect to the fans of Pantheon, I think this thread started off with some very useful posts about a topic that needs to be discussed by the players and hopefully the points are taken into consideration by the EQ2 team.

As much as it sounds like the game is moving forward, I fear what others have already stated that this new change of company hands may bode little to no change to the game we are currently playing. I sincerely hope this is not the case as apart from slight restructuring of the management, I do not see the game will see a shift from its current direction.

If this change does bring about more personnel and cash to the development of the game then that should/must bring about a major overhaul to the game mechanics, a more open communication by the devs and less touchy feeling here and in discord where slight criticism is being pinned down. We as customers/players have been far too long neglected of what I consider to be very useful feedback on the game without asking for anything unrealistic in the game.

Holly's interview (recent and streams of the past) keeps on revolving around the theme of community led/driven development which is a gross over estimation and frankly insulting to the players. I hope dreamweaver is able to convey this very general sentiment over to the developers and management.

This part is the funniest. Gee, I thought WOW or LOTRO or SWTOR or ESO (or insert any other MMO that has come along) was going to kill EQ. I've heard it so many times - yet still we are here 20 years later. At least the ones I've mentioned are big studios with track records. I'm sorry, but Visionary Realms is wobbly at best with a very shaky past and it's driving creative force no longer alive (RIP Brad). So to say Pantheon is going to "end the EQ franchise for many people" is one of the funniest things I've heard this year.

Once you lose the trust of your fanbase, it doesn't matter what you do next, you leave a bad taste and people remember, and no longer trust you

For example, see Rivervale.

People have long memories when it comes to unpleasant experiences. It matters little how big your email list of past customers is or how much they love the franchise if those folks don't trust you.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It looks like the "doom-and-gloom" crowd is back. I hate the toxic "holier-than-thou" rhetoric. No doubt, it's great to have healthy skepticism.

Honestly, Daybreak and the EQ2 team really surprised people with Chaos Descending. Blood of Luclin has mixed reviews but seems to do its job.

If people distrust Daybreak or think EQ2 will die, you need only say your piece once. It doesn't need to be drilled every year (and proven wrong).

I literally remember how the negative Nancys kept their mouths shut during the Chaos Descending era.

Great point. In my opinion?

Cataclysmic Cosmic Catastrophe (or C3 )

Hit the "reset" button, and have a world-wide event (perhaps even with cross-server play?) that isn't to "win" something... but to survive. Once the rubble clears, it's revealed that Norrath as we know it is changed, and this time.... this time, we lost. Existing players would get some sort of a leg up / starting bonus as a descendant of their current player. The current world is maintained and could be accessed via a portal; that way, people could still enjoy their houses, SK's could commit zonewide genocide to level up that last alt - but no new content would be introduced and no NEW characters created.... basically a museum that people could visit and "show off."

In the new world - simplify and reset stat baselines, zero out the economy, and perhaps upgrade the game engine / models (like they did with Shadows of Luclin). I mean, we gamers like challenges, right? How about having to rebuild our world as descendants of heroes that have lost everything!? Give current players a choice on the type of starting bonus they'd like - perhaps end-game raiders get a mythical weapon that's been passed down for generations, and grows with them as they level, while a more casual player starts with a legendary item or ability. Tradeskillers would be the holders of knowledge, and have the ability to re-discover lost techniques using the tools passed down to them.

That's probably too much to ask to for - but heck, it'd make a helluva launch strategy for EQ3!