So, my monk is now almost lvl 29 and I see a huge difference

Monks Can use a Shield.. IF I am tanking for my guild which I do alot. I use a buckler.. the latest Patch notes said Monks can Use Round Shields now!!!

So go out and try using a Shield... Every Class that tries to tank, tanks better with a shield!

Also,

One more thing them i am off to bed I promise...

Feign death,

Its a joke. It has no real merit to the game. Get a bad pull or aggro in any dungeon you evac. If you don't evac then you FD and try to clickable res the dead priest. Well, guess what, thats not possible in most scenerios. Usually you die in a place there is no way for you to safe res anyone in and regain your health. After you res the priest he has no power and nohealth, and the priest has to heal you and res the others. Well, in a aggro enviroment thats just really not feasable. Let us drag corpses to a safe spot so we can safely perform res on the group and get back into action.

Gage-

You keep saying, know your class. Yet I stated several tactics with the monk being the main tank with a guardian back up and no one has even considered this a posibility. Perhaps, I am on the right track here? Combine monks offense and deflection with the guardians HPs and mitigation. Perhaps a lot of you need to try out different things. Go fight in the mino room at level 32 as a monk in RE, and try to MT it will be very hard for you to hold your own. Because all those pulls are socials, and they have the chance to hit for 800 damage on a critical. Well, I am not saying you are a bad monk, but I have been playing a monk since beta, have played one in EQ 1, played on in NWN, and study other classes skills to develop tactics with the monk. So, just try to go main tank all the level 38 mobs that hti for 800 on a crit and see if it works. I didnt even wana try it. I got hit by a 789 dmg barrage tonight because I was standing at an angle to the front of a mino. Each one of them can do that, and when you are fighting like 4 of them, thats a possible 3200 dmg, which a guardian can take (guardian i was with lvl 33 w/ just under 3k Hps and 2600AC) because with mitigation he never takes full damage on a hit. 3200 damage would kill me outright. I know, that it would be a rare occurance for every mob in the social to critical, but its stil possible.

Yup, another take-the-easy-way-out approach there. Instead of fixing the Brawlers' defensive abilities, they give us shields.

Tomorrows headline: Brawlers now have access to Medium Armor !

No thanks, if i wanted to be a tincan hiding behind a shield, i had rolled one.

Funny, our monk tank had 3000hp. :smileyindifferent:
First you say we can't tank at ALL and now its not equally.
Just because you can't tank, doesn't mean the class is broken.
Its not just evil eyes man, its the shift boss, clay insurgent, the mess cook, the master of the guard etc and so on.
Multiple mobs, boss mobs EVERYTHING in Runny Eye with a lvl33 then 34 and now 35 monk MT.
It can be done.

Gangster I know you know the class, which is why it disappoints me that you are so negative.
This part we did man. We did the Minotaurs who are social, we did the Clay insurgent, we did all the goblin named mobs for the quest. We did all of these with a lvl 35 MT monk with between 2800-3000hp.
Maybe that room is hard to tank @ 32, that part could be true. I doubt it will be when deflection is fixed.
The part I don't like is that you try to say it can't be done or that we don't tank as well as other classes. I just don't feel that is true.
My monk friend at 34/35 tanked the same mobs with the same down time as my other friend who is a 34/35 guardian. (they dinged during xp'ing).
We were even going for awhile with one healer (although I will always prefer two no matter who is tanking).
The fact that deflection is BROKEN and should be fixed, combined with round shields now instead of just a buckler is going to make us that much better at being MT.
You guys don't have to agree with me, but I think there is one problem and one problem only: deflection being broken.
Since Moorgard says the fix is coming (today even) and I've been doing all of RE with a monk for a MT, that gives me a lot of positive outlook.
Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 12-04-2004 07:26 AM

I don't think it is, because intervene is still white to me @ 31 and uses concentration. Staggering Stance is blue to me and doesn't use concentration. You may be right but it'd be a replacement to intervene not an upgrade.

I don't feel that ganster is being negative. At first he was very positive and offering new ideas for a monk that tanks. All he is doing is trying to let everyone know that there is indeed a problem. If we sit back and tell ourselves that we are a fine class and need no tweaking, then nothing will get done. All I really wanted to see happen was something done about the bugged deflection. If this is happening, then I feel I have done my duty.

i wonder if the devs read this thread...

Would be nice, I would like to know what they invision a monk's role being and what changes if any are necessary to fulfill that vision.

I know this is nitpicking but...please "examine" your Staggering Stance skill. It is not an upgrade to Intervene. If you were in Beta, it is the Brawlers' replacement to Defend.

The description states it allows you to block for [ your target ], as well, as increasing your agility. It also has a different HO icon, timer and recast time. It is not an upgrade to Intervene, but a completely different and independent skill.

It's obvious that by giving us Round Shields, the devs also see a problem with the Monk class.

But how is giving a MONK the use of SHIELDS (why were we even able to use a buckler, anyway?) the answer? If I wanted to use shields, then I would want some armor to go with them. This doesn't even make SENSE.

If you want us to have shield factor, then give us wristguards with the shielding factor of a round shield that use the Brawling skill to equip. At least THAT would make sense, blocking attacks with my wrists while leaving my hands free to attack.

Even if a Brawler-type CAN tank, and let's face it, we can, but not equal with ANY other Fighter class. Because of this, groups don't WANT us to tank. And believe it or not, secondary tank is NOT a role that most groups think is necessary to fill. Most groups would rather have an enchanter to mez the mobs, or another healer to keep the tank going, or another true DPS to kill the mobs on the tank easier. The only time offtanking is even necessary is if you have multiple linked encounters on you. At this point, you're doing something wrong anyway. The MT should be able to tank the entirety of a single linked encounter all by himself. And Guardians, Berserkers, Paladins, and Shadowknights do this well.

Staggering Stance is nothing like intervene at all. What Staggering Stance does is lower the amount of dmg the character you have the buff on recieves and gives you buffed AGI. You take no dmg when this buff is on. Also, this works EXTREMELY effective with intervene. If you are the MT and you are intervened, slap Staggering Stance on the guy who is intervening you. He takes less damage.. much less. I tested this with my Berserker friend today. It ups their mitigation big time. W/o the buff he was being hit for 25-40 while I was getting hit for 30-45. With the buff he was getting hit for 15-35 while I was recieving the same dmg (he had intervene on).

Also, the timer on Staggering Stance is EXTREMELY odd. You can spam it all day long, w/o a recast time, however, once the buff runs out, you have to wait 30 seconds. In other words, if you cast it before it runs out, you can continue to cast it again and again and again. It has a 2 minute 30 second timer and a 30 second re-usable timer. It's a great skill to use.

I'm going to have to go out and buy a shield. Perhaps the shield will make fists more viable now seeing as how it hits as fast as a 2 hander and just as hard but with added defense.

I can easily say that mend is EXTREMELY usefull in a duo with a monk and another fighter. Using the intervene/staggering stance combo works wonders. We killed 13 mobs at peak points in a row before I had to use mend on myself and we did it again and by that time, mend was up. Non-stop killing of whites at 20 except for when we are at half health and get jumped by 2 other mobs... not a fun time at all.

MOnks were given shields because if they ARE the Main Tank they need to use a shield JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER TANKS!

I have been trying the Intervene on My Monk since the game has come out but really did some Tests over the last week. I Think this will be the Best Set up on Raids.

well to be honest... Monks with big shields ... How could that be the "vision" for SOE ???
Could they do something to have this Tanking Issue solved really easy???
It would be just helpful to get HP just like the other tanks... I dont understand em ..

Monks and Bruisers can now wield round shields in addition to bucklers.

I sincerely hope this isnt their "easy way out" fix for this problem, this is ridiculus, name me ANY monk in any game or history where they require or need a "shield" to defend "their body" The whole philosophy of a monk is using the BODY as a temple of strength and energy, and NOT NEED any type of shield or armor to defend themselves with.
Seriously if this is the vision of SOE in how their gonna lean a monk, i might as well cancel my acct and go to WoW, since i refuse to play a char like this.

Good bye then.

Monks could use shields, and it was preferable to use them, in BG1 and 2. I don't care who you are, your body can not protect you against a flaming giant with a sword three times the size of you.

Now, since we are comparing monks of EQ2 to monks of other games in terms of shields, lets compare them to other RPG's.

1. They are pretty much the same as EQLive, but with added utility.
2. They are roughly the same as BG1 and 2 with the noted difference of HP's.
3. The Martial Artist (which is close enough to monk) in AO had high dmg and roughly the same tanking ability.
4. In all games monks have ALWAYS been DPS and back up tank. I fail to see why everyone is so dissapointed in this. If you have played EQLive, then you should of expected roughly the same thing.

Plate tanks should always tank better than anybody who does not wear plate. Do you think your body can stop something sharp and pointy from stabbing you in the stomach? Nope, don't think so.

When you compare something to other games in one perspective, you must look at all the others.

Per SOE, all FIGHTER type classes should be able to tank, just with different style, yes i totally agree a monk should not be able to outtank a war/guardian. Thats their main job and 100% agree. But we should be at least a deacent replacable no? not a power dump as it seems.

Monks could use shields, and it was preferable to use them, in BG1 and 2. I don't care who you are, your body can not protect you against a flaming giant with a sword three times the size of you.

By avoiding it alltogether.. and using CHI, again a monks main forte.. using their body agility and spirit as their strength.to avoid a blow alltogether


Plate tanks should always tank better than anybody who think sodoes not wear plate. Do you think your body can stop something sharp and pointy from stabbing you in the stomach? Nope, don't .


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You should read up on Shaolin Iron body, Iron Palm

4. In all games monks have ALWAYS been DPS and back up tank. I fail to see why everyone is so dissapointed in this. If you have played EQLive, then you should of expected roughly the same thing.


The problem with this is simple monks dont do good enough damage to be considered first rate DPS. My Swashbuckler does far more damage and has more utility. My monk needs a job, be it tank or DPS he needs to do one of them good enought to be attractive to groups.

Giving a Monk a shield is like giving a nun a condom its useless and totally out of character.

I do not know what SOE did on their Dec. 3 patch that wasnt on the patch notes, but by god they did something. I had read that they were going to "fix" deflection the next patch, which was the on dec. 3rd. So I decided to log on and play around. First I went to nekt forest and tried soloing for a while. I found myself dodging, blocking, parrying, and riposting alot more. I was able to take out whites with no problems and very little downtime. Later I had found myself in a group with a 24 Guardian who was tanking. I politely asked if I could tank for a few to test my theory on the fixed deflection. He was kind enough to let me have a go at it and much to everyone's surprise I seemed to tank just as well as he did. IF he was a better tank, it wasnt by a noticable amount. Even later a few of my friends log on and we decide to test further, so my roomate (warden) and other roomate (swashbuckler) grab a couple of dps (2 dirges) and have a good go round with me being MT. You may find what Im about to tell you hard to believe, but I do not lie. The experience was excellent. We started with grouped whites to see how that would go. With his regen on I would rarely fall below max health. Often it would appear that I wasnt taking any damage at all. I was in fact taking damage but so little that I would quickly regen it back. On grouped blues and whites, sometimes with up arrows, sometimes large group with no arrows, he would never spend more than half a bubble of his mana keeping me up. Most of the time his regen over time alone was enough to keep me at max health. Seeing that something had indeed had changed, we decided to move on to some yellows and try those. First thing we pulled was a yellow with two up arrows. I had on staggering stance, brawlers stance, and popped martial focus. It went very smoothly. Though my health sometimes did drop a bit, it wasnt anything to break a sweat over. We handled the encounter easily with the healer only spending about a bub and a half for the encounter. This wasnt a even a caster mob! So we pull a few more to make sure the first wasnt a fluke. We had the same results each time. Quick clean kill with no downtime. At this point Im feeling brave.... I spot an orange double arrow up mob around the corner of the citadel. I confirm with my group that everyone is ready and pull. Tanking this mob was not a problem at all. I will say that he did hit me for 528 on a hit, however most hits were around the 200 range. The healer did have to spend a bit more mana on this mob... I'd say he used 2 and half bubs of power for the encounter, but the imporant thing is that I did tank and never felt I was in any danger nor did anyone in my group. It was awsome.

I noticed my deflection still appears to be bugged. I'd love to hear what a developer's take on the situation is. Are they going to fix it? Is it even broke?

On a post by a developer I had read that delfection wasnt "firing off when it should" which affected monks, brawlers, and bruisers more than most. That firing issue was scheduled to be fixed on December 3rd, and as far as I can tell - IT IS definetly fixed. I am back to a tank status and happy to be here. I would still like some further info on deflection being 139/125 and the 139 not going up (See previous post for further explanation). However, having the ability to tank once again is enough to make me happy.

On a side note- I picked up a nice medium shield off a yellow named we took out near the waterfall. It was called a goblin shield. My group was kind enough to let me have it and I can't wait to see if it makes a difference in my already very capable tanking abilities.