Tara, The trade of with Bruisers is that when we get hit, we get hit harder than any other tank class, plus we don't have the HP you guys do to suppot to many of those hits. We just cant' be damage sponges like you guys. We make great tanks because we just don't get hit as often, so we are more mana efficient for healers. So, we take the most damage, but we also deal the most damage. It depends on the buffs we use. I can use my defensive skills and avoid being hit alot, but this cuts my damage in half nearly.....or I can use my offensive skills, like when I am secondary tank, and I lay out 60+DPS...but...if I get agro, I am dead in two hits. Plus when we do tank we are only really good when the mobs are in front of us..if they get behind us, or there are too many to keep taunted...we get killed ever so quickly. S
And makes you a more attractive member to a forming group than a zerk, escpecially if your are not tanking. What does a zerk add to a group other than moderate damage and nothing else? They have made a non tanking zerker very unneeded to groups.
Actually my bruiser is higher lvl than my zerker...and he tanks...only because he avoids the damage...if you put up your deflection buffs...on mobs that are white , oj and some red you will actaully be able to stand toe to toe with those mobs...however I do hate having to explain this as...I already see the Guardians wearing diapers running over to the nerf request switch.
You comments regarding the classes are similar is insulting and uninformative..and yes you should not sit and try to rationalize something you obviously have no clue about.....your points are based on the fact were whining...cuz our toy doesn't work the same as it did before...that is what i don't care for....I can't speak for all zerkers...but I think i can speak for most....we are pissed the Fark off because the not only have stripped us of massive dps...they have gone as far as to make us have a dps lvl as pitiful as a Guardian. (sidenote: if guardians think thats the way it supposed to be your as ignorant as your dps is low.) You sit here and downplay and dissect the game...like you have leveld a berzerker.. I infact ahve a 28 berserker and a 30 bruiser...so I do think i have abit more experience in the matter. I see zerkers bringing up valid points of concern...yet i see the guardian morons and others saying everything is ok now...sure for you arses it might be....but for the zerker that has invested all there time...its not.
And there is the problem we have Ob, this is what we aer complaining about, with no buffs are around we tank the same and DPS the same, up till that poin all is fine, but: Step 1) add the guardian buffs in the mix and they tank better while both classes have same DPS So, obviously when not including berserker buffs the guardian has the advantage-same DPS but slightly better tanking, so: Step 2) Use berserker buffs, DPS is now slightly higher than guardians...BUT at a cost of defensive ability, therefore once we use the skills to up our offense the tanking gap between guardians gets bigger. So step 2 is where the imbalance is, when guardian casts buffs their defense is better than ours so when berserker casts buffs his DPS should get better than the guardians WITHOUT costing us a further defense penalty, unless they want to give us a bigger DPS increase than we currently get.
but the problem with that is a little more dps doesnt have the same amount of value as a little more mitigation. so, giving zerkers a little bit more dps, which isnt very valuable, and giving guardians the same amount of better defense in whatever form you want, which is very valuable, creates imbalance.
no it just means that you cant totally relate. you sit there and act like it's no problem, like we got everything we deserved, and to stop whining. but i 100% guarantee you that if you just lost half of your dps, you'd be upset too, even if it was a little overpowered. bruisers dont make crappy tanks till post 30. mine does just great with defilers. maybe if you're trying to have a inquis or a temp heal you then yeah, you're gonna suck pretty bad.
When i started my Zerker... heck even 3 or 4 months before i decided to be a zerker we were restricted from wearing vanguard. I think the EQ2 website still says that to this day /lame.. it was a shock actually to find out that we could wear heavy armor. Even my guild leader thats a gaurdian that played in beta was like thats not right. My point is that we at least i dont want both of 2 worlds.. I was fully aware that i was going to have sub par armor to have good dps. and that was my choice.. yet some where down the line this never happend. I bet 90% of the people that started ta zerker thought the same thing as me. Also the reduced defence for higher offence which was never implemented cause of bugs and was taking away If you read the new description of Focus Rage it will tells you that you no longer loose defence for going berserk anymore so thats not a vaild argument anymore, but it does push us closer to becomeing more and more like a gaurdian..... And some people said that the offensive group buffs are the intended adds dps... thats laughable. Our offensive group buffs are lame actually.. At lvl 45 i have 3 offensive buffs i think there the same as lower lvls ones just upgraded. War chant adds a whoopin 12 str.. Tides of war adds like 15 offense and Sreaming fury adds some hp and a haste thats not even noticable. None of those buffs are going to change the tide of a fight they might add like a whole 3 dps to someone in the group. So thats a dead theroy. One of the difference between monks/brusiers and zerkers everyone fails to mention is the fact that they have the dps ALL the time not only when tanking but as a support role too... when a zerker is not tanking his dps is nearly cut in 1/3rds. When im not tanking i have to sperate half of my skills that make me go berzerk from the others cause if i use them and happend to go berzerk i get aggro , which in turn leaves me with half my dmging skills not useable. Which is a nother point, bloodlust alone wasnt what made us get instant aggro it was the fact that bloodlust proc'd us to going berserk like ever 2 secs, and berserking actually causes the aggro, I know this cause i would steal aggro by using a skill or somthing that makes me go berzerk other than bloodlust and steal aggro. . So pre patch it was balanced they just needed to fix the aggro issue and maybe lower the proc rate on bloodlust. We did awsome dps when tanking and average when not tanking now we do average at both times.All they had to do was fix the lower'd defence going berzerk and it would have been balance but now they took that aspect totally outta the game. And dont say i dont know what im talking about i was #6 zerker on my server and #50 world wide before i decided to take a break after this patch. Allannah 45, Zerker POS Permafrost Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 06:20 PM Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 06:21 PM
Very well said Moogard, In my guild I play the roll of main tank most of the time, which works just fine when I have a shield out, which I have always done. When I'm not the main tank then I 2Hand so that I don't draw agro. If I'm soloing then I duel wield. So each set of weapons has its correct use, though I would like to see beserek last just a little bit longer, though before I used to always be a pink glowing barbarian because beserek was always gone off, which I didn't think was correct.
Hey everyone, Well I do not play a zerker. I play a monk on the kithicor server. I have several zerker guildmates. Currently I am level 47 and have grouped with zerkers all throughout my levels. I also played in beta. The zerker class has gone from way down, to way up, to back down to plateu since beta. In beta they were the worst tank class hands down. They needed so much work. At the end of beta they got tons of boosts and became the most powerful tank upon release. There were great balancing issues with the zerk Vs all other tanks in the begining. You cannot deny that at all. My zerk guildmates even said they were over powered in the begining. Zerks also made the worst secondary tank/DPS in the game because of their aggro. I would group with a zerker 4 levels lower than my monk. 4 levels is a huge enough difference to make the monk the preferred tank in the group. Zerkers offer good DPS so they can also DPS. Well, I could not hold aggro off the zerk at all, and the mobs hit him more often than me, and he almost died a lot forcing our healer to chain heals on him. The level of the character has a lot to do with tanking abilities. The highest level tank in the group should always tank. So, they fixed the aggro issues and it was not as bad. I could have a lower level zerker in my group and hold aggro for the most part. Zerks got group haste buff which was nice addition, and their DPS was really good. Now, I am just trying to be fair and look at it over all. Zerkers out DPSing a monk is unbalanced. Monks have the worst mitigation out of all the fighters. So they make up for it with DPS and avoidance. If a zerker can out DPS a monk, then why use a monk? You get DPS + mitigation. Now, SOE has done some good balancing between archetypes. Look at the bruiser Vs. the monk. Bruisers do slightly more DPS, and monks have a slightly better defense skills. Overall, in a real world experince most people cannot tell the diference. If you take a monk and a bruiser and go anonymous and they both have the same equipment people could probably not pass the pepsi challenge. I see guardians and zerkers in the same light. Slight DPS over Slight defense. Should be marginal and only really matter in the end big picture type stuff. Fighitng dragons and gods and such.
So now you're degraded to the level of personal attacks? Very upstanding of you. You're right, even though you meant it sarcastically, I never did complain about zerker aggro. I said Guardian's lacked aggro. I never complained about zerker DPS. Frankly I didn't care. If you actually read my posts, which I know you haven't, what I'm saying is actually very helpful. You just have your mind dead set that anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you. Which is the wrong way to do anything, let alone interact about an MMORPG. Tanta keeps posting that he can't tank the same cause his AC doesn't mean as much as a Guardian's AC, which is wrong. AC works the same for both classes. He goes on and on about how he can't tank, twisting the definition of mitigation and suggesting he should be able to lean on his offensive zerk skills full throttle and "mitigate" the same as a Guardian, by way of doing crazy DPS to "kill the mob really fast". All the while I've tried to explain that the very skills he's leaning on are lowering his defensive skills, causing him to take more damage, and thus making it seem like he can't tank. Look, if you're not going to listen, you're not going to listen. No amount of posts are going to change that, so don't worry, I won't bother with you anymore. With your present balance you can, potentially, be the very best back-up tanks in the game on raids. You could be just as effective in a exp group as any Guardian, provided you grab the right kind of support classes. You can also dish out quite a bit more DPS than a Guardian when you aren't tanking, as countless combat parsers can prove any time of day right this very second. If I, a Guardian, blow through 50% or more of my mana focusing on damage only and am dual wielding, I can sometimes get up to 110 dps. Berzerkers easily hit 140, 150 if they push themselves just as hard. Even SK and Pallies can hit 135, 140+ if they do the right things. But instead of focusing on what you can do, and finding ways to play this game that keep it fun, you've resigned yourself to constant flaming, whining and "whoa is me" crap and refuse to see anything anyone else tries to show you. It's no wonder you hate anyone who doesn't post 100% agreement with what you say. You want everyone to suffer right along with you. Well, guess what, you don't have to be suffering right now. So a coiuple of your skills aren't 100% of where they could be. None of that is preventing you from tanking. None of that is preventing you from doing DPS when you aren't tanking. The only thing preventing you from doing those things is yourself and your attitude. So you've seen healers post about how suck zerkers are to heal when they tank... wanna guess why? Because most low-mid level zerkers go friggin zerk while tanking, lowering all of their defensive abilities, and thus make themselves take more damage than they should be tanking. When you tank, put away your blood lust, rage, etc... put on a shield and, *gasp*, play defensively. It's really not that hard to do. Now back to your regularly scheduled flames...
Gangsta.. in your post you showed the Berserkers major flaw.. we take a pounding and have nothing to balance against that. Maybe if they removed the defensive hit we take from berserk that might help us absorb damage but as we stand now, the amount of damage we take is not in line with our DPS compared to the other tank classes.
oblix.. if we play defensively as you state then we are just a weak version of a guardian.. what is the point of all those Berserker offensive skills if we can't use them. Most of our offensive skills are based around being hit by a mob yet we get ArseRaped compared to Guards. How many guardian skills have a negative effect on your defensive\offensive capabilities.
Oblix i bet you wish you know what your talking about also most you other zerkers keep saying it too. We DO NOT loose defence anymore when we go berzerk, Check it out for your self. READ THE NEW FOCUS RAGE desription. And we cant go berzerk when we are not tank because we get aggro. So every thing you just said in your post above is meaning less. Allannah 45, Zerker permafrost Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 08:27 PM Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 08:29 PM Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 08:30 PM
We don't? that's news to me.. I'll check out focus rage.. thanks Message Edited by Grimgore on 01-12-2005 08:34 PM
The issue is we go berserk like 3 times a fight if were lucky. The reason this is an issue it doesnt seperate us as an offensice warrior anymore.. we are wanna be gaurdians now. Also did anyone notice pre patch when you were tanking with bloodlust and all your other buffs that you never stop zerking and you had TWO berzerking icons up there... meaning we were actually zerking TWICE at the same time... all the devs had to do was to stop that instead of limiting us to only zerking a few times a fight. Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 08:35 PM Message Edited by StAnG56k on 01-12-2005 08:43 PM
It was even in the update notes on the patch that they change the description on focus rage.. can belive no one saw that /shrug...
When do you recomend we berserk? We are berserkers berserking is what we do...now you say we shouldnt? Shall i remind you one of our issues post patch-it is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE for us to berserk when not tanking, and now when tanking we shouldnt berserk either? That makes us a warrior who hasnt bothered with hallmark. Berserk helps us do that slightly better DPS we have, without that extra DPS we are just tanking with less ability than a guardian, yet with it we are slightly more DPS with considerable decrease in tanking ability compared guardian
