Currently heroic loot seems 99% equivalent or in most cases in terms of clickies and procs, far superior to most raid dropped items, far easier to get and far more common. I am not liking the itemisation this xpac at all, jewelry stats has been watered down so every class more or less shares every time and its boring as hell. Loot has no flavour at all. I HATE the gimmicky clickies and procs that are coming out of temple, they seem to me like a total waste of an item slot, you cant even force people to take these items as they are atm - no one wants them. The most interesting items are coming from heroic zones. When a tank would rather use a legendary charm from a heroic in place of raid charms in the hardest zone in the game then something is very wrong. I am hoping the later loot in temple has more to offer, or for me this xpac I will be sitting out until its all changed again on the next one. /rant off.
As a warlock I also feel it's a bit stupid. The novelty card is basically best in slot charm, with the 2nd charm being either SG HM, legendary heroic charm, crafted fabled charm from heroics etc. It won't be an avatar charm, it won't be a charm that gives 70 crit bonus. Ok the ethereal strike wrist is at least rare, but it's so much better than the Rarthek wrists it's ridiculous. Like skydan said the loot just seems gimmicky. Could you maybe give us an option to turn in Temple x4 items for heroic items? I'd love that.
The armor, cloaks, and belts I don't mind too much. The jewelry is itemized very poorly and half of it goes straight to alts. In heroic zones you give us massive damage procs on jewelry but we get in to raid zones and all we get is an ae block only if it triggers and only if I am 7 meters away from everyone else? really? The avatar ear with the aoe block from 2 avatar sets ago had a better block and 10 cb on top of it. A lot of the raid jewelry effect/procs are terrible.
The items with effect that stun a raid force ...I will put it in to perspective I will REMOVE anyone in my raid force using one easy as that. Rewards vrs the penalty are not viable. That stuff should be heroic. Getting penalised for putting effort in to killing a raid mob is a bit out of touch imho I do say that some of the gear is OP and some class AA's are and I have done for over two years, This still does not sanction giving out gear that slows you down or debuffs you or fellow group / raidiers
TOVx4 jewelry has truly been awful. Have not seen a single piece yet that has made me excited. Needless to say i'm wearing 0 pieces
The raid loot is seriously broken - in many cases its equal too or worse than heroic. I enjoy raiding either way but it needs to be fixed. Its really bad.
The goal for raid itemization (and to a lesser extent, group itemization) is to encourage min-maxing as a raid, and as a group over the individual parse. Most of the items that come from raids are balanced and designed to focus on increasing the raid effectiveness on the whole, over the individual parse. More of the group items increase the individual's parse, which is why many players will prefer them. Guilds who can min-max those items should see higher raid effectiveness than guilds who focus on the "only me" items.
Stun entire raid? Seems balanced. We tested this today in arena, not viable, even got the person with the stun immunity rune on. Straight up provide less stats than the heroic equivalent on the clicky no matter what? Seems balanced? The decreases max health by 99% neck from SG HM made me lol thinking it was a bug meant to be a clicky but after seeing this yeh obviously isn't.
It's an interesting idea for loot, but its not a fun system in the slightest. I do not want to be gearing to look someone else better, I want to gear to make myself look better call me selfish if you will but to me that's what RPG items are all about. I want the holy avenger sword +5, not the holy avenger sword that only works when everyone is swinging it at the same time for lesser effect.
Here's an example comparing a common heroic drop (that I got on the first heroic I ran on day 1) vs. a Temple x4 drop. Both are "me only" benefit if I'm reading them correctly. If everyone in the raid is using Scale of Sontalak (which would be bad for the raid) it gives each user a clicky for 106 cb for 20s assuming you coordinated in vent and everyone clicked it at the same time. The heroic drop gives you 100 cb, 100 wdb and a significant dehate for 18s and requires nobody else in raid to contribute to it. If the heroic drop were ultra rare I could see making it on par with the x4 charm. But it's common and not just on par, but significantly more powerful. I like the idea of encouraging min/maxing raid benefit over individual and even the idea of a coordinated clicky, but the power of these need to be looked at to encourage anyone to even consider using them as intended.
So we need 20 people using \aITEM 671427110 135960306:Scale of Sontalak\/a to get 100 crit bonus, whereabouts we have 20 wearing \aITEM 296934444 955292819:Aerakyn Novelty Card\/a and get far more benefit. How is min/maxin the scale in a raid situation in any way shape or form giving us an advantage over using 20x Novelty cards ? Im seriously confused by the thinking regarding your statement Xelgad, sorry. P.s Sorry plus the whole factor of having 20 people to even push the clicky at the same time, as it could/would benefit certain classes to be used at a different times.
That's not what raiding should be all about. Raiding is a test of how 24 individuals can work together, not a collection of individual parses. There's plenty of individual benefit heroic loot that you can use to show off in heroics for if you need that.
Well, technically the first one isn't "me only" because it rewards you for working together with other people who have the item. That said, this kind of feedback is far more useful than feedback like "that would be true is half of the raid drops helped the raid in the slightest." Looking at the Scale of Sontalak, we missed our intended balance target on it - keeping in mind that the Crit Bonus on Undercover Assault doesn't work on Auto-Attack aside. We're adjusting the Scale of Sontalak in specific. It's fine to post items you see issues with and we'll adjust them on a case by case basis. As far as the Hydra Necklace with Psychotic Assault - the damage increase is "more" than our power balance in exchange for the penalty that you'll only be able to use it if you can avoid all incoming damage. It's intended to be highly situational, which is why two mage necks drop from the hydra. Items like Keplin's Earstud with Overloaded Augmentation also give an extreme amount of raid power if you guys are using the item correctly. The wearer of that earring has complete control over whether or not the raid will get stunned. All they have to do is pause for 3 seconds when it's about to stun the raid and it won't stun them. The wearer's DPS may drop slightly because of this, but the raid's DPS will be improved. Especially if the person using the item is someone who doesn't contribute as much damage to the raid as other classes.
Xelgad - could you clarify something about the Psychotic Assault necklace? The wording of it looks like it is just +100 potency, and NOT "Increases potency by 100% of the caster's base potency"...
It is +150% potency directly. It does not work like Recklessness or other effects that modify your potency based on how much potency you have. This is intended so we can control scaling on the item via new items, rather than having an item that scales for all eternity.
I would say values of the Keplin ear at this moment is to low. I read it as this, 6 increments = Stun. So max incs should be 5 & 5 = 25 pot x 4 chanters 4 bards 5 healers = 325* max pot to raid. 15 players attacking for 3 secs on a mob would be more dps than 325 pot would do imo Also if this is the way your heading with loot it would be nice if you fix the spell window up so we can track this stuff with ease. I was debuffing my self back a long time ago with PotM so this stuff ain't new just forgotten
The only raid items I've seen that have really wow'd me are the bell tolls charm from Sontalak and only because that is massively broken (still), and the stoneskin boots 2.0 wrist off legionnaires. The increased damage taken ear off caden/keplin is good but simply isn't usable majority of the time because it could port you into an aoe (dragons), cursed player (rarthek, legionnaires), or ground effect (jalkhir, crumbling emperor, matri marn) and kill you. Not to mention if you have a curse and get ported into other players, lol. Plus, the only classes that could use this without it interrupting their dps on single targets (chanters and summoners) or on ae (illies) are mages, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it ported you off of a spell auto and it caused the spell you were casting to be interrupted, which would just be annoying as hell. Especially for guilds not killing avatars, all of your best in slot gear until the end of wing 1 tov will come from either heroic zones (and in some cases, battlegrounds tokens) or old raid zones (dmp offhands, hydra helms, tourbillion wrists, pk weapons) except for the two items I mentioned.
