**PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE* Bring Back PVP**

You're saying that the developers should stop listening to PvP players & just make their own game the way they want to

. I'm sorry, but that tells me you haven't been on these forums very long -- "not listening to PvP players" is one of the biggest complaints coming from PvP servers.

But, if the devs actually took your suggestion seriously, the end result would be .... no PvP servers, at all, because after a few months of the players seeing that the devs aren't listening & aren't going to do anything at all to fix issues players see on the PvP servers, the population will dwindle away & the servers will die.

Or, IOW, we'd be right back to where we are now, with no PvP servers & no PvP, & why? Because the devs don't have the time, the resources, or the interest to do PvP. This has been true for close to a decade now; I'm entirely unsure why anyone thinks it's ever going to change.

Get over it already. It's over, it's dead, it's not coming back.

Gosh, it's almost like some people don't realize that EQ2 is, always has been, & always will be a PvE-centric game. With that in mind, "using that logic" to shut down raids would be .... no, I'll just stop there, I'm pretty sure the inference is painfully obvious.

If you're a PVP player, just keep your ears to the ground, chat with people who used to be in the community.

that's always the case sooner or later, nobody will agree that something is balanced in PVP because 'balance' is x class being on top (which just happens to be the class the complainer plays).

that's the major problem with PVP issues, any time the developers change something, anything, there is another group that cries something is broken because they don't agree with the changes that just by chance reduce their own character's power directly or indirectly.

every time they change something it affects one group positively and another negatively.

if the devs stop making changes someone, anyone will cry because their idea of perfect balance where they are on top and better then anyone else due to mechanics rather then skill isn't being delivered.

why do you think gank squads exist in pvp games?

No. What I am saying is that PvP players ask for design changes that ultimately unbalance the game because of the nature of the PvP player's desires.

When it comes to PvE, the game designers should listen to their customers, but when it comes to PvP, game designers should not listen to their customers.

The best analogy I can give for this is a chicken coop builder listening to the complaints of wolves, and basing their designs off of what the wolves want. In the end, the chicken coop will be completely worthless, and there will be no chickens left alive to even have a chicken coop for anymore.

*Nailed it* Bing, bing, bing, we have a winner folks, Pharone just delivered the perfect analogy for this topic. Thank you, truly, I have been wracking my brain for a week now trying to think of one that works perfectly. (I think I love you and I don't even know you).

We can stop talking about this now and just say "chicken coop analogy" whenever the topic rears its ugly head next month.

Cyrrena

PS I may have to add to my sig *the one that loves Pharone without even knowing them*

They don't even test pvp before they put it out, and if you ask players they just say something selfish to give themselves a benefit. The game will not function as pvp. They can't even balance overland
. Beat the dead horse. They will not bring it back. They don't even have the population to get people to do pgs, much less pvp.

PVP Was a freaking blast for a while on Nagafen. I locked my ranger at 28 and it was some of the most fun I have had with EQ2. I remember seeing "OneTouch" and "TwoTouch" come on track and running for my life... Anyone who knows what I am talking about is probably getting a good laugh right now.

I honestly think PVP broke when they introduced the BG servers, it kinda jacked up the open pvp feel on Nagafen because nobody did it anymore. That and the removal of the Fame/Title system... So many crybabies on the forums ruined that system for everyone. Finally got my ranger (Stolkin was his name) to Dreadnaught about a week before they removed the titles.

I agree with Pharone. In the year prior to the PvP server shutting down, developers spent several months making PvP fixes based on player suggestions. These suggestions were by PvP players who wanted to unbalance the game in their favor and it succeeded. When Nagafen was shut down, there were about 10 players online at primetime.

So it's one thing to listen to player feedback about Solo/Quest, Group, and Raid content. It's quite another to listen to player feedback about competitive content where there is a winner and a loser. The advice you get will be highly biased and full of ulterior motives. Polling might have been a better solution, but ultimately I think you need a dev who understands PvP and can make the adjustments that are needed rather than players trying to literally get away with murder.

Well, if "stop listening" means "stop listening to the pleas for PvP to return" then I'd agree entirely. I'd even say that if that's their policy, they should simply auto-nuke any thread that asks for PvP to return.

But if they're going to bring it back, then "stop listening" will make bringing it back a complete waste of time. They "don't listen" has been a common enough complaint for years that actually formalizing that attitude would be the proverbial coffin nail.

I've said before, I'll say again: if you're not going to design your game from the beginning for PvP, & add in PvE only after PvP has been fixed & balanced properly .... then just don't bother at all. Designing & balancing a MMO for PvE first makes PvP a dead end. Since that was not the process for EQ2, they shouldn't bother returning it at all.

Brooooooooooo! That was my friends and I lmao. I think we went all the way to eighthtouch or ninthtouch. We made those toons to pack hunt Seliri and harm touch him 6 plus time lol. It worked wonders but literally took all of our harm touches haha.

PvP seemed the most populated and successful when left in a more natural state after implementation. Small adjustments were fine but there were too many game changing adjustments that had a negative impact on both pve and pvp and I'm not sure who, why or where those idea's developed.

Why can't they just re launch PvP again and lock it to lvl 1-50? When more expansions come along, more zones and places to hide and spread out come along. The TLE PvP thing worked out great at launch, I'm pretty sure launching expansions didn't work out well for it. I'd love to be literally proven wrong. No, not being jumped on and responded to here to state how wrong I am, I'll only be satisfied and accept how wrong I am when they re launch PvP a 3rd
Time and it fails again.

Why not have it like I've seen in other game's, those that want to pvp can turn it on and those that don't can have it turned off. Those with it off are not attackable nor can they attack. Just a thought...

*cough*

Because in that case there will be PvP players trying to "drum up some action" by doing anything they can to interfere with those who are not flagged, trying to get them to turn on their flag, or call in allies. Things like killing all the quest mobs in an area so no one can complete their quests. The end result is that people who prefer not to PvP are still impacted by PvP activities.

Things that broke EULA in the past were never met with severe punishment (3-7 day suspension for blatant exploiting/using non approved 3rd party programs) when there was a reasonable staffed team. You think that will change now? They would just do what got them money at this point and you cannot have a successful game period using this method. They couldn't balance BG's prior to ascension abilities. Sounds like it would go over well. Being a pvp player myself I was waiting for a revised BGs and about 2-3 months ago I realized this will never happen. No matter what the guts are for the server/BGs it will always meet the same end result when handled the same way. Sometimes you gotta mix up some Captain and Coke and log into a new game that has successful pvp to get that much needed slap in the face...

Have to agree with Ursa on this. The amount trolling would be out of control.

At this point in the lifecycle of the game, why does anyone think that a major change like this is even possible? If you want PvP, go play a game that has it. The Devs have already said it's not going to happen here.

Dude!
Have a *Reply* and a *Like*!

I bought the game at launch. I remember pvp not being popular and that's why they got rid of it. I like how the pvp crowd is trying to act like it was this great thing when it wasn't. You guys want pvp you have other games you can play. It would be stupid to add it in this game after all this time. Balancing it would be a nightmare and thats the real problem with mmo pvp. You can never really balance it. And the devs would be wasting to much time trying to like every other mmo.