Mage ranking in dps/survivability/utility

Freliant wrote:

Yes! It is lvl 80 and it is a master 4 pet. We don't really have an auto attack and considering our utility is outdated we should be able to do some damage.
Assassins put up well over 10k. We used to be t1 DPS. I mean what is t2 DPS anyways? It's a euphamism for low dps if you ask me.

Mindor@Permafrost wrote:

QFE plz we have suffered long enough !

Germs666 wrote:

T2 DPS is supposed to be balance. Considering where our utility is supposed to be, making us T1 DPS would be OP. IMO they need to get our utility back up to T2 so that we can be the balance we were intended to be.

Germs666 wrote:

My entire idea for that one sentence is as follows:
"For example, someone mentioned that the pet doesn't even do damage comparable to assassin auto attack. Are you refering to a solo assassin fighting against the training wall without any poisons or proc gear or other dps increasing buffs/adornments? Cause I am pretty sure their auto attack damage is comparable with summoner dps pets. Now, if you add haste, dps increase, procs, and all types of raid gear along with player skill... that "auto attack" is way higher than any other class in the game. So you want a pet, that you can just sit back and watch him dish out 4k+ dps? You do realize that there was a time in KoS that this was exactly the case... and it got to the point that you could leave your summoner afk in a heroic zone where mobs popped and your pet would just kill everything that tried to kill you?"
The master IV pet you are refering to, is the Mythical one. If I am not mistaken, that pet has more survivability than your tank pet, the same range as your mage pet, and the dps of your scout pet... What they should have done to your mythical is given it a buff like the Conjurer plane shift, but on steroids... something along the lines of increasing your pet's base stats x4 (including damage) for a limited time, and give it a fast recast timer. It should not be limited to your pet, but all pets that you summon during the period you are under the effect of the buff. This has the added benifit that you could use it as the tiers increase. Right now, summoner mythicals will be outdated the moment the next tier pets come out. Also, this prevents summoners from afk killing, since they will need to be present to use the buff when it expires.
In any case, I am against unattended play, and beefing up the summoner mythical the way that was stated (giving it a huge amount of dps), would just lead to that type of play.

personally i woudl rather see the mythical be a buff to any pet we have out rahter than just one m4 pet. a means to buff any of our 3 pets to a m4 would be nice. but that is completely seperate form the need for stats ot be shared to some extent. math doesnt lie and every singel summoner in game is losing dps solely because gear is only effecting 2/3 of our classes. and teh gear that does effect our pets is jsut weak sauce compared to the other mages stuff.
whatever gets done if it gets done i agree that it shoudlnt promote afk petting. easy fix if a m4 of the tank or scout would swing the balance to solo too much put a persistent health cost on that buff jsut liek lich but a little more severe so that someone afk petting will kill themselves ie. dont make the buff autoremove when too low on health, kill us.
I'm still pretty new to the summoner in eq2 though so i cant comment too indepth on things yet, but i can already feel the effects of the gear and pet stats issues. everytime i add more spell damage and crit i have to drastically change my casting to keep agro on my pet, he jsut cant keep up with my upgrades when solo, i have to **** my own dps so much when solo its not even funny, i can only imagine how bad he will suck on raids dps wise.

Freliant wrote:

Quoted. You're right though. My guess is they will fix Summoners somehow and nerf Chanters further.
So the big mage whine for the next expansion is likely going to be chanters asking for something to replace all the lost dps as they don't want to just be buffbots. It's just there as a huge underlying problem with the class, ever since they slowly removed the stuff added in LU13, masked by the DPS they chuck out at the moment.

thog_zork wrote:

I don't understand what needs to be fixed when a conju is usually top 3 on the parse.
you want to be top 1?

in my guild the conju is usually first dps, followed by whether wiz ou illus/coercer
And the conju in the best guild of our serveur is usually on the top 3 of the parse and can deal out amazing damage.

I've never played conjuror but when I see those numbers I wonder what needs to be fixed? you want even bigger number?

Illine@Storms wrote:

Try it yourself, and send "Necro 80 LFG / 200 AA / Raidgear" to the levelchat, and see how many hours - erm, months - you need to wait for a group...
I remember the times when I was chatting with other raid-necros on my server about necro issues. Nowadays I need to use cross-server-chat to find raiding necros...
For conjurers it's a bit better, because they do some decent dps sometimes, but as they have no utility, too, they also have a hard time finding groups and raidspots. Now have a look at your own post, where the illu/coercer with uber utility does almost the some dps like your very impressive conjurer - do you see the issue now?

Illine@Storms wrote:

If you conjurors are reaching those positions, its because the other players of DPS classes in the guild are poorer than whoever is playing the Conjuror. It is not becasue the class is stronger than others.
Seriously, if a Sorcerer or Predator are constantly being beaten by the Conjie then you are either giving them appalling groups or they are bad players.

Illine@Storms wrote:

First dps huh?
Where are your wizards,warlocks,assasins,rangers,...because those classes do more dps.

The typical apples to oranges comparisons by people who have no idea what the class issues are.
Please don't post if you don't know what you are talking about.
Devs, please fix this class so we can participate in all of the game's content. Thanks.

I guess the problems with Summoners are more apparent when you've been raiding for close to 3 years with the same guild, with the same Wizard, and the same Warlock. Seeing yourself go from being clearly T1 DPS in EOF, sharing the top of the parse with the Wizard, and being well ahead of the Warlock, to falling behind both in early RoK, and gradually falling further and further behind the more we progressed in RoK, then TSO.
I don't concede that we should be T2 DPS behind Sorcs and Predators, and if they plan to leave us that way we need to get a whole hell of a lot of utility in exchange. I don't think the whole redefining our classes as debuffers thing is going to work out as well as they hope. Not fixing our pet DPS problems (as we have been requesting for about a year and a half now) on top of that just feels like getting a slap in the face, then being offered a cookie.

lolnvm!

Summoners aren't aggro limited like Sorcerers. That's why we don't do top-tier DPS.

Mage
Illusionist- 25k Velo <Defiance> Permafrost
http://www.eq2flames.com/illusionis....-parse-34.html
Wizard- 23.5k Fomka <Surreal> Barren Sky
http://www.eq2flames.com/zones-popu....tml#post991919

Warlock- 23.2k Jozy <Surreal> Barren Sky
http://www.eq2flames.com/zones-popu....-thread-5.html

Necromancer- 19.5k Utopi <Tyranny> Oasis
http://www.eq2flames.com/necromance....thread-11.html

Coercer- 19.4k Parable <Defiance> Permafrost
http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/3....thread-21.html

Conjuror- 16k Alliya <Exordium> Everfrost
http://www.eq2flames.com/conjurors/....thread-11.html
First of all get the crap off about "chanters" which means coercers and illus. Talk about coercer OR illu. Coercer have been screwed compared to our "brotherclass" since last few expansions (KoS,EoF and half of RoK) and I personally get sick of this all over talking about chanter are too op while only one is really.
Tuning down illu (which means in fact reworking of setboni and prevent mixing vp and rok are possible together) will leave wizards and warlocks at the top. They should be followed by summoners and also here.. necromancer seems to be a lot better than conjuror, my intention... give them more utility AND dps boost so summoner scale around 21k in this comparison while chanter have more utility and scaling 2k below.
The only reason why summoner might not be thought about being T1 dps class I can think of is that there are 2 scouts and 2 mages allready, followed by semi utility classes with semi dps, followed by full utility with "low" dps. That SOE simply forgot to give chanters a similar amount of utilty compared to bards makes the more amount of dps reasonable (in case of coercer) for me.

I'm getting also tired of people which have somehow no clue about the real endstatus of their class talking about everything is ok and that stuff. Stop looking at the shortrange picture, at least try to see the fullrange one and if this means you stop posting.. stop posting. There is nothing more stupid than talking about his class while someone claims to be able to write down his thoughts while haven't even finished last tier content and meanwhile no one ever read that stuff or worst scenario devs pic up that people posts to prove that there is no problem.

those numbers hardly show class potential since the mobs used are basicly traning dummys that do not at all reflect the rest of the expansions content.
also those parse where made possible by broken procs and the coercer was in the MT group not a mage group.

there needs to be no chanter dps nerf at all there just needs to be some type of utillity given to summoner that does not in turn break another class. it makes no sense to fix one problem by creating another.

Interpret parses with a grain of salt. They don't tell the complete picture. And they never do.
Summoners in particular aren't even remotely close to as good as a Sorcerer on a burst fight (and Palace trash is a collection of burst fights all strung one after another). Enchanters and Wizards excel at burst fights, on the other hand.

Xalmat wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Palace trash is a collection of 30 30-to-60 second fights. It's not a continuous 20 minute fight on a single monster. That's a key difference.