I am now a 24 berserker, and in 90% of the groups i join i am the MT. So my question is how much better tanks are the guardians? How much less dps they do? Because now i am having second thoughts about maybe i should have been a guardian. Also as a side question, i have started using shields now and was wondering what is better Shield factor? or Shield that gives regular AC? thank you.
Shield Factor is just a special word that describes the shield's AC as far as I've seen, nothing else special to it. And frankly, go DPS mode - its what the class was designed to do, and frankly, in my experience the healing difference between Shield+1H, 2HS, and DW modes is really negligble if you keep your equipment upgraded as frequently as you should. Shieldless, I've been tanking 38-41 mobs since 33 - with Fury + Warden as my healers, high yellows with just the Fury. DPS between Guardians and Berserkers are kinda hard for me to give a true comparison of since I've only ever grouped with a Guardian twice, and both cases he was 4-5 levels higher than me - but I can say last night when I grouped with him for a miniraid mob he was fooling with in a small group before I got there with my lady, the HP was dropping about 5% per min (they were just duoing it, and she was keeping DoTs on it) - once I got there and we restarted the encounter - it bumped up to around 12% a minute... (keep in mind though, his DPS part of the equation did raise some when I joined for sure - since at my level zerkers have a group haste)
the gap between berserker and guardian is so minimal it wont make much diff at all to a good group if you're MT or not untill the higher levels (35+) when ur fighting tougher mobs.
Heres the deal. As a zerker, I am 100% MT all the time, in every group. the reason is I spam Taunts, i have multiple skills that pull aggro and are made to hold aggro. Traditionally, my opinion of a zerker was a medium armor melee class with the highest dps in the game, but here it is not the case. Here, I dont care about dps at all, I care about holding aggro. Since that is the case I gave up dps for a shield and a 1H weapon so I have better AC and ability to survive massive attacks, plus shield stuns. IMO Zerkers are not zerkers in Eq2, we are MT's I should have went Brawler or Assassin basically to fit my traditional zerker role of highest DPS, medium armor. Its sad but true, but someone at SOE didnt know what a zerker was heh. Message Edited by Krullgan on 12-27-2004 08:14 AM
berzerkers are exceptional tanks for normal groups. Good berzerkers can tank boss mobs. guardians are the ones that should tank raid mobs. the difference is more than minimal, but not in normal groups. except the facts that... Berzerkers can hold aggro like none other, and Berzerkers definitely do more damage. So in my opinion, Berzerkers far better than guardians everywhere... except as raid tank.
25% is gear, 50% is the persons knowledge of the class (I.E. how best to mitigate damage early on, keep yourself going during the fight, sustain max power and hate ratio... etc etc etc, you get the picture), and the other 25% is being in a group who knows that same information. I have a buddy I play with nearly daily and he says I tank better than another zerker my same level (and sometimes one or two above me depending on play time). Now how is that possible? Knowledge of the class. My point is... if you play your berserker to its' max potential in either the offensive or defensive arena, you will be VERY VERY close to the same as a same level Guardian. I am 39 now, and this is how I and others see it so far. I am not 50, so this may completely change.
" Good berzerkers can tank boss mobs. guardians are the ones that should tank raid mobs. " -------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd reverse that....Bers actually tank waves of mobs fairly well due to the ampunt of AE agro generated. I'd say a Guard would have the edge against a 3up Red boss. "Is being a berserker worth it?" ------------------------------------------- Yes. The EQ1 design was a mangled mess and fortunately designers captured the Norse spirit in this incarnation.
I'm having a blast playing Zerker. I have played both tank and DPS in groups. Just need to know your role. Agro Mgt is part of knowing your class and the game. It takes skill to tank effectively, as it does to crank out max DPS and not take agro from a MT. Find out what roll your going to play in the group, and roll with it. I enjoy doing either roll, and the zerker gives me the ability to do both well.
24 Berz here too. I am considering to stop this char. I am made of paper. With some other guys in FG (20-21-21) versus a green 2/3 my life shrinks like hell, after 2-3 secs I am under 50%... I know that 1069 AC is not enough but at this point I am discouraged because if my effectiveness is only in my AC this is boring. Yes I engage full buffed chaining OHs, choosing the best combat arts and maximizing all I can. "No offense Mortifer (me) said my groupmates, you are not that strong " I know (sigh). This char will sleep until a little more love will be given to Berz.
That's BS. my main is a healer and you can tell that healer in your group to shove it and go get some spell upgrades. i've fought in FG w/ many a tank and i considered myself blessed to find a lvl 20 or so tank w/ 1000+ AC. You have to ask yourself what situation you were in. Were you fighting the Giant Wretchs? they tear everyone apart no matter what your AC is. also, some of the other mobs in FG really tear through tanks, like the leatherfoots. there are more factors there than u just being made of paper. gotta talk apples to apples here... not to mention that healer you were playing with needs to learn more skillz... as it has been mentioned above, its all about how u play and also the ability of others in your group. there is no magic combo in the game. all of you coming to this thread looking for the magic answer of to which class is better, look no further! i have the answer for you right here: drum roll... WORK ON MAKING YOUR OWN GAMEPLAY AS SUPERB AS POSSIBLE FIRST, THEN SEEK OUT OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE TO GROUP WITH. there it is! if you chose berzerker, play it to the fullest. I think Lumpy Doo said it perfectly above: 'zerkers manage agro and do dps really well. they can also tank fairly well. can a gaurdian mitigate damage better? perhaps, but there are too many factors to say this is true 100% of the time. too many factors are based on the person sitting behind the monitor. i know a few brawlers that i would rather have MT for my Inquisitor than many of the guardians i have met. again, its b/c of their style and knowledge of gameplay gels well with mine. when you have cross-mojonation with other good players, good things happen...that simple. may your days of 'zerking be merry =) Message Edited by Bobbubski on 12-30-2004 10:47 AM
I don't know about mobs in FG, but I tank in TS just fine. I have been soloing yellow solo mobs since 21. Can tank green ^^ with just 1 regen from my wife who plays a druid (Duel Wield, without using shield). Granted it's relative to the mobs your fighting, some are meanier then others. And if you fight a 300+ hitter, expect to drop 50% health if they get a good special attack on you followed by a solid hit. It's not always going to be easy. If it was always easy and trivial, what is the thrill and excitement in that! It's those pull it out your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and squeeze it between your butt checks adrenaline that makes the game fun.
I do think Pallys/sks can last out longer than zerkers with their buff, but damage wise zerkers do more
^^^ Yeah they solo better because they can heal. In a group, berserkers hold aggro better and do more dps. Although this may all change next patch depending on how the arts get changed. As it is now I have no problem soloing whites/ylws and most ojs at 31...
I don't think Pally/SK solo better, nor to they tank better. Soloing, we kill WAY faster. So we might take a little more damage.. but we are regening before them. I'd say this is a draw. Tanking, they have a little more survivability MAYBE, but in the end, the suck up all their power trying to ward themselves, heal, or whatever, and they end up being OOP all the time [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] time. I've seen it time and time again. This is my opinion after 40 levels. (40.6 if you want to be technical about it.. hehe)
Yes it's worth it. Seriously some people have no clue what they're doing. I'm getting tired and almost want to go back to a pvp game where i can slaughter people I dont like. I'm getting tired of shared debt too. Some brilliant players I have run into in the last few days.. A lvl 24 paladin with 850 buffed ac, using a store bought 2hander who tried to convince me pallies were DPS and not tanks. A 23 Templar who thought BoV was a waste of mana so he never cast it and couldn't figure out why his app1 heals were not enough to keep me alive on a pull of 2 blue group encounters (4 single up mobs all landed their quickstrikes on the pull). A lvl 22 ranger that parsed at .. get this ... under 10 dps overall. Every single fight. The conjuror pet was outdamaging him every fight. I have a 12 predator that does better dps than that. But back to the topic. With half decent gear I'm satisfied with our tanking ability, and while backup tanking with a highier lvl bruiser (I was 23, he was 26 fighting lvl 25 mobs) for mt I was doing the same dps as him (granted he was tanking therefore was getting parried frequently while i was behind the mobs, but no reckless counters on my part for damage either). The only slight problem is I feel like a crackhead always craving for more. No matter how much AC I get it never feels like enough. But I'm willing to live with that over beeing a breeze buffbot and so my coercer is gathering layers of dust thanks to burnout with bad groups.
