Dungeon Finder please copy the one used in wow

They plan on basing it on your main stat iirc, much like Rift. So wisdom for priests, agility for scouts, strength for fighters, int for mages. there are adorns for main stats but you would have to be quite close to a check already for those to push you over. Plus they could probably make a way to check players as if they had no adorns.

Tank, healer, utility, 3xDPS is easily good enough for any of the dungeons unless you are undergeared and the gear check would handle that. VD is a whole other monster and I imagine it would either be left out of the DF or have its own special requirements.
Skill is a different matter. I think FF14 put in a merit system recently for theirs that gives people a quantifiable reputation.

WoW's DF is cross server, the EQ2 devs said it would take extensive database work to make a cross server DF feasible on EQ2. They want to do it eventually but its far down the line. Since even the DF itself got pushed back I imagine its that much more further out.

I do pugs from time to time as do others in my guild, and we are subject to seeing the biggest gear discrepancies possible along with only a handful of other guilds world wide. We often talk about how we would group more if there was a DF that picked up decent classes with some sort of gear check. We wouldn't run VD with pugs but we wouldn't run VD without being selective about the classes even in a guild group.

Okay? Most the gear needs a group or more. Just because theres solo content with gear rewards doesn't mean grouping takes a nose dive unless there are people who don't really care for improving much. Solo content just takes them out of the equation which is a 'plus' for them and every one else. They get some gear without having to group and groups don't have to deal with someone who might be far too casual.

A massive server merge would also make DF work. Such as put everyone on a single server. I think that will happen before they fix up their database.

I got a shock when I did some figuring and realized that typical weekend server population on my server was no more then a few hundred. Probably under 500. Certainly under 1000. It also explained why I kept seeing the same people over and over. Only reason it doesn't look as bad as it is is because a lot of people are in one zone. No way will a DF work on that server if it isn't cross server.

The point I was making is that alot of people, rather then dare touch a pug from grouping play solo to get cryptic, and then simply run those over and over while watching the SLR for cloaks/belts/charms/weapons ect. until most zones outside ToV are trivial to them. Then they MIGHT PuG...and even then they'd be selective in who they choose.

and lets say the judge it by 'main stats'. I have 9 stats as a paladin tank to try and balance. you think for a second that I'd waste ANY adorn slots on STR, you're out of your mind. and I frankly don't want to be put with folks that are wearing 2 peices of cryptic and quest gear with a few adorns because my 'str' score isn't good enough to get put in with the 'big kids'. and yes, I need haste/strikethrough/dps/potency/ability mod/casting speed/reuse/block/mitigation and I even have some hate gain despite amends for those times where you got more then 1 high DPSing class and a couple constantly vie for top slot.

Again, Cross server? not a chance am I grouping with someone that can screw me over from another server, thank you. at least right now if someone screws a group I'm in over, I can call them out on it and they can worry about why it might be harder for them to find groups later.

I'd rather them use the resources they have on new content. give me more heritage quests. lets see some more shards of the planes, or more revamped older dungeons and instances like we're getting from KoS. Give me more storylines, more lore to incorporate. Tell me who built the Nexus and why. Lets see some of the other dragons like Trakanon, or Gorenaire and Talendor again. lets see if Veeshan's Clarity has turned them against the Awakened or if they are still aligned with him like Vyemn.

Surely the Broodlands might have a Bonemire or a Barren Sky section we an see.

Or hell lets get real creative. lets visit the Kunark of the afterlife. lets see if the Shissar go to Ethernere.

I would rather any of this then them trying to 'fix' the DF.

I'll just make my own groups from my guild, or if I do a pug, I'll just either have a good time, or add the people to my list on /ignore

With the current itemization of gear I don't think they could base anything on stats. Only on archetypes. All they can do with DF is make sure 1 tank, 1 healer, rest up for grabs...maybe 1 util required depending on destination instance. They also need to do a ready check before popping peeps into an instance.

Players are gathering different sets of gear for different zones/group setups/etc just because of the itemization of the gear in ToV. There's no way they could make a decision based on what you CURRENTLY have equipped.

You can fairly easily gate based on crit and primary stat. Other stats will vary wildly based on the set worn, but generally Primary stat + STA are going to be comparable, if not identical. The thresholds don't have to be brutal...just base it on a representative character in modest gear at the expected level for the content.

Obviously you can't account for every possible eventuality. People can be remarkably creative at making poor gearing decisions, even if technically meeting the minimum requirements.

Okay? Again, why is this any kind of argument AGAINST a DF? If anything they would be MORE likely to group with a DF because they can't be bothered. If they wouldn't that's fine too. If you are trying to make some argument that people who group would only use static/known people and no one else will group based on inherent dislikes of grouping you are delusional.

The fact is DF's are WILDLY successful in every MMO they are put in when the DF's have the proper tools and features.

So I guess you just passed over the part where I said adorns for main stats are more or less trivial compared the entirety of the pool of a main stat? At most less than 650 when main stats are WELL into the thousands. Most of the stats you mentioned cant even be put in contest with STR in terms of adorns, and all pieces of gear you can wear will also have your main stat.

Are you even thinking about this critically or just thinking of ways to shoot it down? What's funny is they already solved all these problems and started working on it and you are talking like they shouldn't even start. It would have been launched with ToV if it wasn't for the lay offs. Catch up.

Gear in EQ2 already has a 'gear score' behind the scenes used for balancing and item generation purposes, they just don't show it. How high the green stats on a item is a strong indicator of that score. Green stats stay constant with tier regardless if its the WDB, pot or w/e. The only exception are hte rare pieces that don't have stamina.

EDIT: Here is what they said about DF 2.0 at last SoE live, thanks to eq2wire.com


At long last, Dungeon Finder is being rebuilt!

• Updated UI will show you your place in the queue.
• Rewards for using Dungeon Finder – bonus currency, plat, loot crates for using the system
• Internal calculator for determining the correct level of gear to survive the dungeon
• Matchmaker will only build functional groups with tank, healer, support, DPS, and 2 other slots.
• Matchmaker will try to grab a Troubador if you have a mage group, Dirge if you have scout group. It won’t hold up a group for these, but it will try to build the best possible group. Very smart.

Tired of relying on the computer’s matchmaker to build a group? Build your own based on everyone who is currently LFG!

• Group Builder is an Advanced Mode for Dungeon Finder.
• Allows group leaders to customize the allowed classes. Can specify only specific tank classes for specific zones, or certain classes for specific zones.

So looks like they planned on using the gear score they have internally for the DF, it just wouldn't be shown to players. They tried to show it to players once before but people threw a fit.

Yes. a LOT of folks I have run across DO only group with select people on thier friends lists. if you want on that list, you gotta A) hope no one in your class on that list is on, and B) be as good or better then the person that's already there. like it or not Pugging has a HORRID reputation in EQ. yes I'm sure DF are popular in the games like WoW (which is so easy a blind monkey can play it and be good) or Rift (were everyone can be every archtype)

and I'm not saying it wouldn't be used. though no one I have come across would use it. optimal groups aren't 1 tank 1 healer, 1 utility and 3 dps. optimal is 1 tank 1 healer both bards, both chanters, 1 dps. usually. oh but depending on the zone, and the classes, you might need 2 healers. or you might want a troub and a illy, or a dirge and coe. or maybe you'd rather not have 2 necros and a ranger, since the necro spells overwrite each other.

there's 26 classes. and they don't all mesh well together in any programming setup. shamans are having hard times in this expansion. would you like to do Stasis chamber with a monk, defiler, illy, assassin, swash, ranger? probably not. but a DF would see that as a great group to throw together. and how many sub optimal groups do you think it would take being made before the boards are alive again with 'DF sucks, it can't form a good group X amount of the time'?

which was/is the big argument against it now. can a group of 3 healers a tank and two utilities do it? sure can. do people want to play in that setup? no they don't. are there aa specs that could allow a group without a true tank to do a zone? yes there are for rogues, and even a spiritual BL might be able to take with a decent healer. does anyone want to play that way? no. can you do a zone without a true healer but with a paladin tank and a BL in spiritual? possibly. would anyone try it? not a chance.

and even if they managed to get all that worked out. so it doesn't double up on classes, so that it gives you the right setup for an 'optimal' group oh and then make it work cross server...I would still rather all that time and energy put into zones/art/content/lore/loot then a dungeon finder.

and if they work in that advanced tool? why the hell would I need to use a DF if I'm going to selectively choose what classes? I'll just use the LFG channel and ask for X classes. just like people do now.

checking a gear score? judging my ability based on my gear and adornment choices? that's a nail in the coffin to me and the people I know. making it cross server? another nail. there's a reason people threw a fit when they showed folks the 'gear score' no one wants to be judged by a 'score' that takes no account of how good, or bad, they are. just because someone is wearing gear that says they can do Stasis or ToV, doesn't mean they can actually do it. and the reverse is true as well.

Have you seen the pure DPS gear? Not 1 point of STA on it. In fact, my level 50 ranger discovered that the Frostfell gear was the same. She took one look at that and said "No way, Jose" and left it on the vendor. Soloing ranger needs the STA. /sigh.

The pure DPS gear in ToV is sadly only arcane gear. I would love to get a potent piece to upgrade with 3 green gemstones to test. Or even an energized one. Wouldn't it be sweet?
I got a nice piece of pure DPS legs but even fully gemed it's below in stats than my energized legs with no red gem. With fractured reds no one would bother with pure dps arcane gear.

Back to the topic. Agreed with OP and Neiloch. DF could become gaming my way for lots of us. I am the lazy one to form pugs or even follow LFG channel. I did it alot back in SS and CoE times. Tired and don't want to bother anymore. Though I would gladly use fully functional DF. And if it's a cross server it would be even better.

The argument for DF seems to be that people are too lazy to make groups on their own, and they want to be dragged through content in an "optimal group".

This is most likely going to be a very negative change for a lot of the games classes that are already seen as "less than optimal".

Don't have a FOTM tank? -- leave the group, pop back into DF, and go back to soloing
Don't have a FOTM healer? -- leave the group, pop back into DF, and go back to soloing
Don't have a FOTM utility? -- leave the group, pop back into DF, and go back to soloing
Someone died? -- leave the group, pop back into DF, and go back to soloing, leaving everyone else with a half finished quest.
Joined a group that already killed a boss? -- leave the group, pop back into DF, and go back to soloing

This is what you got in WOW, this is what you will get in EQ2, "single serving friends" [Fight Club].

There needs to be a penalty for people that constantly pop in and out of groups trying to game the system. Players should be able to temporarily black list themselves from the tool by leaving prematurely too many times. Kind of like how leaving a match in an RTS is considered a loss.

DF could be useful, but the difference between old MMO's and new MMO's to me is that new games are making it too easy for a-holes to survive in the community. Maybe the DF needs to ask you at the end of the group if you would group with that person again. Then the next time you join it could start trying to pair you with people you "liked" in the past and avoid putting you with "dislikes". The rating should be an account rating possibly in addition to class rating.

DF should also show more insight into the internal gear score (tips) to help point people in the right direction that are trying to join content they are under geared for. (i.e. trying to join ToV Heroics with level 90 hand crafted gear, or even quest gear with no adorns/reforge).

ITT: Neil drops knowledge and wins

Who is Neil and why did he die?

I never use these Dungeon finders in any game, I'll group with people in local chat first, and if no one is asking I just won't even bother. I love exploring the open world on my paladin so much I don't really ever have to touch a dungeon.

Also I find my dislike for these things came from the type that would teleport you straight to the gate of a dungeon or into the dungeon and I hate having the game do that. As I said I love exploring and finding dungeons is fun. Finding other things too is fun.

Majority of us who form groups or join them just use calls to speed up getting to a point Groups that are ready to roll do not usually want to wait till a player takes their time to find a dungeon.

So you're indicating that if a player isn't a veteran with CoV to get to your group fast they're not considered as a groupmate?

I said majority. Read please first before lashing out. If they don't have cov they will be called.

Plus it's considered polite to get your rear there quick enough if 5 are waiting one to appear.

There would be more grouping and lower level grouping if there was a functioning DF like WoW.

This is very much a chicken and egg issue. That grouping doesn't happen today cause there is no opportunity for it to happen. DF working cross server with dungeons that offer reasonable rewards for time spent (xp), will net many more groups.

I know I'm sick of PLing, sick of repeating quests, if I could queue DFs in my down time for low effort grouping, I'm sure I would do some. Currently I BG instead, not cause I like pvp, not cause I care about tokens and rewards, but cause I enjoy the rapid queue for 15mins or so of MMO playtime. A good DF system would facilitate the same type of player experience.

1 utility is more than enough to get by. 'ideally' I would say 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 bard, 1 chanter, 2 DPS but again its HARDLY necessary, its just 'nice.' the only heroic dungeon I have seen that needs a very specific combination of things is VD. I've ran all the other ones with 1 tank, 1 healer and 4 DPS no problem, it went quite swimmingly actually.

Sounds good to me, where do I send the tell? High amount of max HP debuffs, assassin hate xfer with a little aggro management from illy and timewarp which works on some predator stuff.

Heck i'll run just about any pug with a paladin and priest, we got heals, amends makes aggro problems minimal and I got a handle on DPS. Lets trio this.

Classes aren't as big of an issue for heroic content as you would like to think, if you can get the basic roles filled you are GTG and even utility can be skipped outright in some situations.

The DF wouldn't do any of those things. If players want to there is ALWAYS the option to put together groups the old fashioned way.

A non-issue, developers have different skill sets. At most a DF would take a programmer and a UI artists to throw together some buttons, if they just didn't reuse other UI art which is more likely.

Gear determines maximum potential, player skill determines the utilization of that potential. It doesn't matter if you are the undisputed best player in the world if you don't have the minimum numbers to withstand content then you are just as dead as anyone else. The score would determine if you meet those minimum requirements, that's it. If you thought DF's were bad in other games imagine if they didn't do a gear check, it would only be worse.

Which is fine, I really would like to avoid such impatient people in a game. These games are for exploring and taking your time. Is it not? Or is the industry going to instant leveling, and instant content completion? This is one of the few games left with a slow leveling and I really do like that.

Its for entertainment. Sometimes thats exploring, sometimes that's 4 hours of raiding, sometimes thats 5 hours of crafting, sometimes thats 10 mins of BGs. There are different aspects of gameplay specifically designed for low time commitment.