I love that other brawlers have said same as the rest of us that not much is needed to be changed in the tree since most stuff are fine. just saying. This is in the fighter section and all other tank classes have a thread like this. I played brawler aswell and know their strongsides and down sides. Asking for fixes to broken/not so usefull things are one thing but wanting to boost up well working stuff is just stupid.
<--- Played a monk for his main character since 2004 (http://u.eq2wire.com/soe/character_detail/876173621240), and still have my other Monk as one of my most played toons. Ask nearly everyone on Splitpaw its the toon they'll most often find me on. Only stopped maining on monk at mid SF, so not like I haven't followed it. However, if you want to get like that, Brawler AA's give 3 Viable choices as Endlines for endgame, how many other classes can claim that? ALL AA trees need revamping, and honestly brawler ones are still one of the best trees as it stands.
Many of us "non-brawlers" Have alts you know some of which raid. I happen to have read into the general balance intent between all tank classes and was very active in the Crusader and Warrior threads. Don't post ideas if you aren't willing to have all walks of classes give their two cents about what they think. I frankly by this point think we almost have an even ground here just have to take the time to make another mammoth post of what I personally see as the best match given what was spoken on in the Crusader/Warrior threads. Speaking off...
If Chi were to change at all I would add a large strength increase to it. Maybe 500. It would have to scale with level so it wasn't OP as **** at low levels, though. Altruism should be changed from a feign death to a 2-5 positional dehate. Eagle Shriek should trigger a 5-10 second buff with 0.225 auto mod and 10% physical DR when dropping below 50% instead of only being active below 50%, with Eagle's Patience being usable any time that buff is up. But pretty much what Error said, brawler tree is in amazing shape compared to other trees. It should be one of the last to get any changes (but if it were changed, I would only really change ^).
Thanks Buff, pretty much my thoughts too is really small and minor tweaks need made. Sigh I should make a tracker post again...
Alright instaed of just saying I will here goes. Tracker post to update all ideas and explain my reasoning for including them over others or just not including them at all. Slightly different format this time Underlines are the Lines, Bold is the skill, Black is the description/change and blue is my thoughts. Strength Line Pressure Point: No change needed. Relentless Punches: No change needed. Claw Reversal: No change needed. Chi: Adds 10% of the Brawlers STR while active. Lower levels this won't be too big but once you hit about 5000 STR this will be a quite noticeable buff to your damage and net the 500 suggested by Buffrat which I frankly like. Tiger Reflexes(STR SF Line): No change needed The STR line is really really solid right now so only the endline needs a bit of tweaking to do anything really. It is able to be specced out of so here is a reason not to. Agility Line Baton Flurry: No change needed. Ambidexterity: No change needed. Monkey Dodge: .25% Dodge chance per rank. As I have posted in the other threads the normal +Defense +Parry skills are quite weak once you pass lvl 70. Brawlers have 3 of these such skills as such each one only adds 2.5% dodge chance at max ranks which is still a nice amount considering incoming damage. Altruism: When triggered drops the effected targets threat position by 4 positions. This basically is now a protection from Aggro rips should one occur and is quite unique actually since it can hit any 1 person in the raid. This however also ensures the offending person who ripped aggro or was the unfortunate target of a memwipe now does not have hate still. Monkey Wisdom: Final rank adds 2 additional triggers of Altrusim each rank adds 1 additional threat positional drop. This is now a quite strong skill though requires speccing all the way fulling into the End-line to obtain. At max Altruism with 100% Reuse would be usable every 150 seconds. I feel the only issue with this line is the weakness of Defense/Parry and the lack of real hard incentive to use the full Lines these Agility changes should only really affect those who fully spec for it now. Stamina Line Mantis Star: No change needed. Mantis Bolt: No change needed. Deflecting Pincers: No change needed. Mantis Leap: No change needed. Mantis Mastery: No change needed. Nothing really needs changed in the Stamina tree as it is quite balanced as is. Deflecting Pincers is Deflection which already is a unique to Brawler stat. I wouldn't change anything here. Wisdom Line. Crane Sweep: Applies base damage once every 3 seconds for 15 seconds. Like Hammer Ground for Crusaders this skill felt weak later on. With a DoT component it doesn't exponentially gain (CB/PoT) but no longer feels weak especially for when soloing/grouping multiple encounters. Crane Twirl: No change needed. Crane Growth: No change needed. Crane Flock: Crane Flock deals 15945-25693 damage on targets within 15 meters instantly and 1345-2453 on targets every 3 seconds lasts for 15 seconds. Now with how this caps you out previously it still is a good solo/leveling tool but the changes to Swift Swings will make up for the loss with a different temp skill. Swift Swings: A 16 second buff that increases MA by 20% per rank and AE-Auto by 10% per rank. At max levels this grants 160% MA and 80% AE-Auto for 16 seconds which if you are not capped is amazing. Seems many were talking about Flock/Swings being useless late game but it is very nice early game. I hope the above suggestion helps fit the changes to them both without breaking the skill at either side of game. Intelligence Line Eagle Spin: No change needed. Eagle's Fury: No change needed. Eagle's Talon: .25% Dodge per rank. See Monkey Dodge Eagle Shriek: Change this to a 30 second duration buff and make it just 10% of physical damage is prevented. This is one of the Brawlers big defensive things but it hardly triggers making it a casted buff removed that problem and adds nice survival with a low %DR to physical. This also makes Eagle's Patience much easier to rely on. Eagle's Patience: Remove the Max hp% limit. By removing the limit on Eagles Patience and making Shriek a casted buff Brawlers can reliably use this to avoid death-touches but it only triggers once like the other Brawler Stoneskins. This change just makes a useful skill more reliable. Brawlers Tenacity: No change needed. I do hope the above list is a much closer idea to what changes the Brawler needs if the changes to the other classes are made. I have been striving to keep the balance and rolls of all tank classes across the three archetypes in line.
I'll add a little thing. Only line that really needs looked at in the Brawler tree is the Int line. It was a joke back when it was mit increase when you get below 50% and it's still a joke with that same threshold for a stoneskin. There are a couple things I could see done with this line. Could make it another single trigger stoneskin with a 2-2.5 minute base reuse (60-75 second max reuse) with a high threshold health % trigger for magic only. Or, make it a Arcane/nox/elemental based Damage reduction ability like, 20% or something. Maybe 20% is too high, 15% possibly? Something better than a knee jerk reaction ability for if you dont get 1 shotted, you have to quickly click this ability before you get healed back to full.
I don't understand why wis should be changed at all. Also when you're suggesting damage you should work backwards to find the base damage you want or post like, 15-25k with 300 potency and 120% bonus from STR or something. Also, if you have 100% static ae auto as a brawler you're doing it wrong. Wants representing with 20%~. Also for INT a 30 second buff would really be the wrong way to go. It should just be a trigger after dropping below 50. Maybe with a cannot trigger more than once every 20-30 seconds.
I reforged to 85% ae auto to drop flock. Then I went to Leap because sometimes it's nice having a reinforcement style buff. I was looking to reforge enough to lose Chi at one point, but really, the cast and recovery is what I love it for and to reforge that much, I would lose more dps trying to reforge out of it. And the 30 second duration wasn't something I was looking at, more like 5 and be a single trigger magic based stoneskin or 15 second duration magic based, 15% damage reduction ability. I could see the 1 stoneskin after falling below 50%, minimal 1 time every 30 seconds (like reversal as it stands, though Reversal needs boosted to be more in line with current mechanics). You would have to put a threshold on the trigger though. Like, greater than 15% max health damage or something to that effect. Otherwise you would get stupid proc'd stoneskins on 2-4k hits that would not do anything to you anyway.
The WIis/Int suggestions were from what I understand has been vocalized by more than just you Buffrat. I accept you have quite the knowledge base and am more than willing to micro-edit my reasoning. Thanks for the correction on the damage mechanic though I was indeed spitting numbers out my behind. I still am not sure how often you would trigger when you fall under 50% and would it persist past 50% meaning it triggers then runs until its duration is up? I know I still have more to learn of how mechanics work I am only a 2.5 year vet myself. So please correct me here. I have yet to really try and "finalize" any of this. I more am just trying to keep track of what ideas are given and what I as a player understand/think would be good ideas based on my understanding of the game. Frankly I would rather Jacck handle this but I seem to be doing it to all three threads anyway. Jacck you probably are right on that 10% Max HP is the most us Guardians get so I can justify that threshold for Brawlers. 15% actually makes you now have the stronger-stone-skin.
But giving brawlers a chance to proc a stone skin if you fall under 50% every 30 secs is abit OP. Maybe its just me. I like the idea alot better when they turn those buffs into a buff that stays on you for like 15secs and than you can use the stoneskin. But tbh i would pref both that one and the warrior one to be changed into something els.Not sure what they could be changed into tho.
As always... tryin to keep their classes and interests secure by opposing any possible change that would threaten their desirability in raids.
Aye its a bad thing to keep these balanced. Lets just give brawlers godmode again and be done with it. Since balance is not more importent than being op... Fixing some broken/useless stuff is one thing... Trying to gain more OP abilitys is another thing. I want balance you want OPness.
Netty, as it stands the current suggestion for both Warriors and Brawlers is to turn their less than 50% hp abilities into active abilities that have 15-30 second durations. If you come up with an alternative skill please PM me. I prefer that over Buffrats idea mainly because of the likelihood of triggering if you fall under 50% many bosses these days seem to leave you with 10-50% hp after a hard tick or pseudo-deathtouch. My current suggestion on Crane Flock even with 120% STR to it and 300% Critical bonus will only hit between 150-250K AE on 8 targets. To me that is yes a smidge high if Crane Flock was made an AE instead of an AE-Auto-Buff then it should be doing 10K-15K (rounded values). I can see leaving it alone though and frankly think that is the better course of action. I included it because of what others stated. Also as I have set it up the Eagle combo would be something the brawler controls. I dislike mechanics that take control away from the player. As the suggestion stands you gain the effects of Eagle's Shriek for 30 seconds and can block 1 attack as long as it is greater then 10% of your maximum HP. Maybe I would say make it 2 attacks but tbh I do not like the idea of it keeping it's trigger being tied directly to your hp. If it were to remain as a <50% hp ability and persisted if you were instantly healed I would have to have it trigger the stone skin effect only once every 40-60 seconds. INT line seems to be the only part really in question I think, as nothing has been stated, Altruism seems fixed now via this tweak.
You drop below 50% hp on every auto attack on any challenge content. It's just regen'd instantly thanks to reactives. Thanks, unwardable damage procs.
I forgot about those. Still though I side with Netty that having it just activate a stone-skin whenever you fall under 50% HP removes a lot of the risk behind those hard hits in raids. As I said at best perhaps if it were to be left as a <50% skill then it would have to function like Guardian Sphere and even then I do not like giving a Class Skill (Mine) to another tank in their AA, rather by that I personally do not like the idea because that functionality would reduce the difference between Brawlers and specifically Guardians.
So with other words those buffs would be up all the time. Tbh its better just to replace them with something that do not have under 50% on them. Since in either way they will be useless or too powerfull. Im not really sure what to change them into. will have to give it some tough.
NP I am working on ideas too, if I get a good one I'll PM you as I value your input as much as a few others here in regards to this balance.
what do yall think about changing Eagle Shriek to being a Stun and Stifle immunity. at endgame this would be all but useless but to most of the brawlers it would be very helpful and it feels like something a brawlers would be able to do. Eagle's Patience - I would like to see this stay a Stone Skin of some sort. Maybe a non Physical one, since we have a Physical one on a desint recast.
By changing to make an immunity do you mean entirely change its function meaning remove the Base Auto multiplier AND remove the Mitigation while its active? Potentially I see a combination of Buffrats Idea being viable but It cannot have a stoneskin on it if it just triggers by going under 50% that would mitigate far too much spike damage and make Brawlers too good at blocking damage which is what Warriors are supposed to be good at. (Blocking versus Avoiding). Shriek if it must stay a 50% HP thing which I think is a dated mechanic should be Base Auto and %DR such as 10% verse all damage types. Thus they take less damage when harmed but don't block it. Patience would still be an activated stoneskin. My suggestion just removed the max HP cap meaning any hit above 10% of the Brawlers life would be blocked (Roughly 7-10K+ hits would be blocked vs most raid-geared Brawlers). In terms of it being Magical Only stoneskin, not sure if that empowers or limits the Brawlers capacity to block something usually stoneskins are used for AE's. Though if Shriek must still be active that makes Patience less reliable if it only activates based on hp. Still working on an alternative mechanic to trigger abilities that are not like this because tbh it's an outdated trigger though an activated skill is just an easy-way out.
