[RF][LJ] For your consideration.

boxing characters without 3rd party gives you a distinct advantage over anyone that plays a single char. so we should get rid of all boxing?

most that you are attributing to not wanting to have boxing on the server do not MIND if you manually control all the toons. and I am one of those... you introduce something else then we have our issues. now *I* know that that program is allowed (legal is a big misnomer here) by DBG and I accept that, but it does not mean i must agree to it, nor does it mean that every boxer that uses it must convince me to agree to it.

Many of us would love a server like that.

i did not say you could achieve what a 3rd party does in game, i said pressing one key and casting 5 nukes is easily doable.

I know you tried, you can't take things too personally in this game as people use the anonymity of the internet as an excuse to go batpoup crazy.
These threads never go well!

Vanilla boxing does give an advantage over not boxing. But adding in broadcasting changes that advantage from additive to multiplicative. If a mob pops and charges me I don't have to alt-tab to change targets and move away, I can switch targets and burn it down from one screen which makes a lot of difference between living and dying.

Well I'll try to keep it on rails for a little while longer, as I find the dialog beneficial and it helps me understand other perspectives as well.

but when you make this statement it is percieved as hey this can be done on one character, i will make it valid for multiple accounts. the difference between boxing with key repeating software and a one character macro is that it is a program that does something the game does not do natively.

Shmef you're getting a little off topic arguing semantics. It was fairly clear that Eqplayer was refering to broadcasting and not just pressing keys to cast 5 spells in general. You made a good point and we all chuckled, but please concede that this is not what he meant.

but you are gaining a distinct advantage over other solo players, why should that be allowed?

I think for a lot of the people here would prefer that boxing were not allowed, but that would be hard to enforce and has been discussed at length in other threads.

There is also a distinct difference in attempting to play 6 different boxes using the native UI without third party assistance and playing 6 boxes using key broadcasting.

Both give an advantage over a single player. The former requires more risk from the player as well as more preparation or perhaps "skill" than the latter.

i was not arguing about what he actually ment, i was showing how silly this argument can be when people complain about pressing 1 key and have 5 actions take place is a bad thing. it is built into the game, the fact that it is instant vs over time is semantics.

people that dont want repeater boxing but do wand manual boxing are saying i want an advantage over other players but i dont want other players to have an advantage over me. can you not see how silly this is?

in a race wanting to have a car that is faster then most people, but saying no one can have a car faster than me.

I don't think it is crazy that people would draw the line there. Boxing within the native software is saying, "Yes, I want to have more opportunities than a person playing one character and I accept the risks and challenges of doing so." Where as broadcasting increases the opportunities for gain and minimizes the risks/challenges.

They both provide an advantage, but it as different as 2n is from 2^n.

This conversation has made me realize that perhaps broadcasting to a 6 box (even with good intentions) is slightly arrogant and jerkish. I'll have to keep that in mind. See I'm introspective.

I have seen named mobs killed by mage boxers, all firing their direct damage spell at the same time. Naturally, the boxer won the DPS race, which was a race that was measured in a matter of about 4 seconds. A casting macro would have lost.

See the difference? This point isn't semantics. What you are going on about is.

if you are refering to me, who says i 6 box? i play a bard and i manually box a mage with a cleric taking the place of the mage as i level them up. its a terrible box pair, but thats because i consistently play with friends. you can look me in game, thats all i ever play. i know manual boxing is an advantage, thats why i do it. its not something terribly difficult to do with 2 monitors. i just get tired of people that cant, or dont want to use 3rd part to box complaining or coming up with reasons no one should be able to use it cause it is an advantage.

I apologize for the confusion. I was in fact referring to myself; as I mentioned in the OP I broadcast to six mages. In that post I claimed to not act like a jerk, and have come to realize that the act of broadcasting to six mages is in itself a slightly jerk thing to do.

who was this dps race against? a full group? someone boxing 6 chars manually? what if a single toon that could kill that name just fine by them self had someone manually boxing 6 toons come up and start a dps race. the 6 boxer would still win even if it was manual. see i can come up with perfect scenarios as well that argue my point.

what you have here is an hole problem that people are just fine dps racing for mobs, i have had problems with solo holes as well on these servers. all boxers do not want to dps race you.

You are clearly not understanding something at a fundamental level. For a group of single players to achieve what a 6 boxer using broadcasting software can do is difficult at best and certainly impractical. Getting 6 people to do the exact same thing, in unison, is hard. Using broadcasting software to achieve the same goal is easy. This is the issue. I'm not sure I can explain it in simpler terms if you still fail to understand.

if you take identical groups and one is 6 boxed with 3rd party and the other is all played by solo actual good players the solo players will always come out on top, period. having weaker classes in a group vs a mage box group will always lose, that is a class being OP issue.

the advantage a manual 6 box player has over a solo player is just about the same difference a 3rd party groups has over a 6 box manual player.