In a thread full of stupid, this takes the cake. Hint: People have enough HP where single heals don't fill up the whole HP bar. What. Do you seriously think we're not further into the softcap than in 2006? (Even taking into account the mob atk rebalancing in 2007) Nevermind the fact in 2006 tanks had 3.5-4k ac, 230 hp rune proc augs, and access to 25+ ac augs for all 20 non-charm slots. Nowdays, tanks have 9-9.8k ac, 450 hp rune procs, and access to 35+ ac augs for all 20 non-charm slots. The thing that has stagnated the most is AC augs. AC has more than doubled, rune procs have doubled, while a tank's weakest AC aug has not. Right. Even a raid boss's DI ie equal to 2-3 rune procs. Do you seriously think a 10k+ ac buff adding another 35 ac aug will shave off 2 DI's a minute?
okay first of all, this is a non-sequitur combined with a staggering show of not understanding how combat in EQ works. the AC softcap has absolutely NOTHING to do with the function of how your AC interacts with a mob's ATK to determine your DI roll - the softcap is merely the point at which you no longer get the displayed value for AC from items and buffs. *edit to add* in context of your new post about this one, it seems you're just inventing arbitrary definitions of established terms. you seem to think "AC softcap" means "the point at which AC's returns on reducing DI diminishes vs. that mob's attack" which is completely idiotic, and also still wrong. assuming for the sake of conversation you get 6 procs per minute out of blessed rune 4 (pain nullifier) that's 6x700 = 3500 damage absorbed per minute. there is functionally no way for us to easily show what 25 or so rAC does to your hit distribution, but unless you're being consistently and reliably hit for 1-3 DI and no more than that, more AC is going to end up saving you more damage taken over the course of a minute - especially if you're fighting multiple mobs or once, or pulling quickly. *edit a second time to add*: i have to go run an errand but when i get back i'll post some parses of what the DI spread is on a variety of ROF and SOF mobs and prove with the magic of math why you're wrong.
Sometimes you can't fix ignorant I guess. Really, this is such an easy issue. Unless you're fighting content that is so weak that there is no benefit from the AC, the ac aug wins. And as a knight, you aren't using a 1her in those situations anyway, you're using your 2her.
if I may, using the logic Kamea is putting out, any knight should really use shawl 2.0 over any modern shoulder/belt slot, after all it also has a 750-850 rune proc, but you only gain ac, over soft cap. But no one would really suggest you wear Shawl 2.0 over even group t1 Shoulders/belt (no one I know of, maybe someone will /shrug), same logic applies to your 1h aug.
That isn't exactly what I was saying. Yes math is math and when you figure it out over the long run it averages out. In "Confessions of a Winning Poker Player," Jack King said, "Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career." It seems true to me, 'cause walking in here, I can hardly remember how I built my bankroll, but I can't stop thinking of how I lost it. ~ Mike McDermott (Matt Damon) That was closer to what I was saying. We all have a bad rng story, so no I was not suggesting that. You misunderstood me on that part. perhaps I should have made it clearer.
I was under the impression that if an attack broke a rune the full attack was mitigated by it not just the damage of the rune?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but it looks like you're saying that if a rune protects someone from damage on a given hit, it absorbs all the damage of that hit, no matter how much? If that is the case, no, it doesn't. That's how pet Aegis used to work (up to a number of hits), which has been changed, but as I said, your post was a little confusing to me. If a rune is 450 hp, and you're hit for 350 hp, you take no damage, and you have 100 pts of rune left. If a rune is 450 hp, and you're hit for 450 hp, you take no damage, and your rune disappears. If a rune is 450 hp, and you're hit for 5000 hp, you take 4550 damage, and your rune disappears. If a rune is 450 hp, and you're hit for 25000, you take 24550 damage, and your rune disappears. These are specific to runes and mitigation effects that lack a hit limit. Abilities like Reprove have a hit limit, so in those cases, you lose a charge from it no matter how much or little damage you would have taken. Runes do not focus in any way other than duration. In fact, the enchanter robe focus was changed, because the previous focus was intended to make one of their self-runes stronger, however, it never worked. Runes that twincast somehow do not do anything but increase hate- one would simply instantly overwrite the other, and leave you with the same amount of absorption potential.
Weapon PROC's on weapons are not independent. If you have 1 proc on a weapon when the RGN triggers the proc it will be 100% the weapon proc. If you add a 2nd proc, you will be reducing the % chance of the primary proc. If your weapon has a RUNE proc and you add a HEAL proc, in theory the run will proc 50% of the time, and the heal will proc 50% of the time. If you want the rune proc firing 100% of the time, then add a +10damage or HME aug. You could get an agro aug and put in it, but with all the agro generation now-a-days, I think its wasted, and still reduces the chance of the rune.
mob: a bearer of light time: 299 seconds avg hit: 11682 max hit: 25227 now, runes and vie and reprove and all that can make it slightly difficult to gauge exactly but the most common smallest difference between hits i can see is about 200, which would put this mob's DB at about 270. 25227 - 270 = 24957 24957/20 = 1247 (rounded down) so, while not precise, we can figure that this mob's DI is in the neighborhood of 1247. 251 hits connected with me out of 342 swings. 251 hits over 300 seconds is 1.2 hits per second on average. that's about 50 hits per minute. so, in conclusion, if give rune procs the benefit of the doubt (that the 2nd rune fires 6 times a minute, isn't overwritten, isn't blocked) you'd need to get 3 hits reduced by 1 DI to match damage reduction. this is the tricky bit since we have no idea what the formula is for turning AC into DI reduction and no way to know what it is, but... as a general rule of thumb i would personally say until every single hit is a DI10 or less, you do not have "enough" AC vs. the mob you're fighting. that's a bit arbitrary and quite possibly unrealistic, but it's what i'm going with. that means until every hit by this mob is under 12,600 and some change, i don't have enough AC. 97 hits that landed on me were for more than this value, which is over 1/3rd of the total number of hits. so, we don't know precisely what 30ac does to my DI distribution, but we do know that every single time that mob hits me, that 30ac is entering into the equation. which brings up another good point, btw... kiting and no damage tanking = benefit from AC aug every time you get hit, 0 benefit from a rune aug. conclusion: we don't have, and never will have, all the data needed to prove even on paper what an AC aug does vs a rune aug. however, what we do know (even missing that info) points to the notion of the two being at the very least equitable, and in most situations an AC aug having a pretty clear argument for being superior.
wrong. this ONLY happens if your proc rate IS 100% which is almost impossible and takes multiple procs at a minimum to get to. say 1 proc is 5 per minute. you swing 60 times per minute (as an example figure). add antoher proc that hits 3 times a minute now you're upt to 8 procs perm inute. yo uget a mod that doubles your proc rate, now you're up to 16 procs perm inute, of the 60 swings. still very very far from itnerfering with procrates by adding new procs. this was gone itno in depth by a dev a year or 2 ago on the old boards but no clue where to find it now. if you dig im sure you will. however, ac still better than a proc. ac protects you all the time, runes only protect you when theyre up, ac doesnt have a dmg cap either, it just simply is. runes have a dmg cap. we've gone over that pevention/mitigation is better than healing after the fact, so healproc is the worst choice of the 3 options too for those that keep bringing up heal procs. more hdex more hagi more ac always over a big fat 450hp reduction from 1 hit from 1 swing from 1 mob out of possibly innumerable mobs/hits/swings at a time.
As Tegila said, this is wrong. I want to say it was Ngreth who explained it, but it might have been another dev. What happens is rather simple, actually. Each proc on a weapon has a number range. On a 1-10,000 range, one proc may have a range of 1-100. Add a proc aug to the weapon, and the new proc's range (lets say, its also 100) gets added on top of the weapon's proc; in this case, the second proc gets a range of 101-200. When the game registers a combat round for that hand, one of the calculations it makes is a random number from 1 to 10,000. If, using that weapon example here, the game rolls a number higher than 200, then no proc fires that round. If that roll is between 1 and 100, then the first proc fires. If it is between 101 and 200, then the second proc fires. If you were to use that weapon and use an ability that increases proc rate 60%, then the number ranges would change from 1-100 and 101-200 to 1-160 and 161-320. If you were to use that weapon and an ability that forces a 100% firing rate, then the first proc's range would increase to 1-10,000 and the second proc's range would fall outside the range of the random die roll. I don't believe that the dev who explained this said that the number range was 10,000. That is a guesstimate on my part, seeing as the combat code is ancient, and the game used integer logic to represent decimal places - 10,000 actually represented 100%, 100 represents 1%, and so on. As a side note, this is why all combat discs that force an event to happen (Weaponshield, Furious, etc) add 10,000 to the die roll for those checks. This does not apply to oddball procs such as the shawl proc, a berserker's Decapitation, or sympathetic procs. I do not know if it applies to innate AA procs. Nor do I remember how buffed procs fit in, if they are a range on that one roll or a separate roll.
Every knight that I know that likes to live on these current mobs has their best ac augs in the primary and secondary; and I mean 1 hand and shield. They put the damage aug on their 2 hander, if you are not tanking, pull out the 2hander. AC = life.
Warrior here... Just my opinion. I personally use a HP/AC aug in primary - with the amount of over healing done, and the sheer amount of damage taken, those extra 235 HP (before mobs, +2 HSta, +3HAgi, +2Hdex, and 15 corruption resist) can mean the difference between unconscious and dead. You call it padding, I call it survival. Edit: I should note that my grouping weapon uses 2 rune procs - mostly used for agro.
Why would you use one of your best AC augs in your primary? Has a dev stated or has it been parsed out that primary ac works as shield ac? Not trying to be an , just wondering if there was some sort of weird change. My set up is primary worst ac aug, because I use a 2her often enough so i want my best augs used as full time augs, and secondary is best secondary ac aug, because shield ac is worth so much more then regular ac
1) Those stats are misleading. Glancing at your magelo for 10 seconds... If you wanted to, you could remove mooto's or heartwood splinter, move gem there, and put spur in primary.... and gain free ac and hp while staying above your agl tier. 2) It's survival if it will take you over the next dex or agl tier. Otherwise it's situational survival, ie better in any situation where you can't melee or proc, or where rune proc would be risky. Vs raid bosses, rune will absorb 0.35% to 0.7% of the damage, depending on how much DPS that boss pumps out. Despite Tearsin Rain faceplam inducing post suggesting otherwise, increasing your worn AC by 0.6-0.7% by adding a 21st aug won't lower your ADI enough to beat that, and especially not on a warrior that uses his abilities. Additionally, given the speed at which most mobs land hits, even the high estimates of how much a 21st AC aug would lower your ADI would make it more RNG dependent than rune.
again: rune only can proc and be used 1 at a time. ac works all the time on unlimited mobs. if 5 mobs hit you for 4 hits a piece in a round, thats 20 hits taht extra 40ac got used against, vs only 1 hit that big fat rune got used up in before you could possibly proc another one. and to lazy: it's been parsed out at least by knights that even jsut the plain ac is better if you're talking multiple mobs. singular mobs then a plain ac aug woudlnt be better than rune, but probably about the same. again due to the fact taht the rune only procs and gets used 1 at a time and ac works al lthe time. however when you add on the fact of the heroics and mod2s, as well as the likelihood for msot primary useable ac augs to have a decentchunk of hp's (like 1/4 of waht hte rune would be on average), now you're adding more and more advantages to that aug. for joe schmo warrior taht never tanks more than 1 mob at a time on a raid or group, the 2 options are pretty much +/- each other, for knights who routinely tank multiple mobs there is no question.
While this has been an interesting read, I am almost certain that most tanks started using rune augs NOT for the damage mitigation but for the extra aggro they generate.
/agreed. AC is king, but going overboard is going overboard. On the other hand if you have an "extra" seldom used one hand weapon and want to max defensive only for a raid fight, then it may be worth considering.
