Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

Gotcha. I guess I'm getting old and my memory sucks. Thought I seen this guy in guild chat last week asking people to help come kill brother z.

That was me about two weeks ago. I joined on an invite from an officer before I really realized that you guys were pulling 160 people at an inny. I figured you had enough people and didn't need some scrub like me. Nothing personal homies.

I have always been under the opinion that you need to please as many people as possible when coming to a deal. There are many in the game (including myself) that strive to be the best I can be in the game and it is great to compete at the top. There is some give and take when coming to a compromise and there was a lot more give by Faceless than take honestly.

Faceless could have easily locked down the server if that was our intent early on but it was not. We gave others the opportunity to make their mark on the server by giving this server a rotation. This rotation has been a ever changing rotation that seems to work very well and I can tell you that in the current state it is MUCH less restrictive than the Ragefire rotation and has a LOT less FFA targets than the Ragefire Rotation or Dima's rotation for that matter (even though on the surface it looks like they don't have FFA). I will show you the numbers from Dima's suggested rotation and the numbers from Ragefire rotation a little later today.

The compromise to get FFA targets was to give Prime-time guilds a 24 hour window to kill their targets and I feel as if this was a very good compromise.

There are a lot of folks from 2 guilds complaining about not being able to take down FFA targets but have seen minimal effort by either of these guilds to go for these targets. When they have made the effort to show up, Faceless has made compromises!

Here is the summary and the assumptions and math thread is below for those of you curious:

Dima's suggested rotaiton:
0.82345 mobs/week rotation for prime time guilds
2.74 mobs/week for 24 hour availability guilds
9.059 mobs/week FFA

Our new rotaiton:
1.74545 mobs/week rotation for all guilds
4.076 mobs/week FFA

Ragefire Rotation:
1.01818 mobs/week rotation
19.34545 mobs/week FFA


Anyone that thinks Darth suggested this rotation purely out of greed can see proof in the numbers that he did not. Faceless has less opportunities to take down mobs now than they ever have.
I had given Darth several rotation scenarios with the numbers well before our meeting and he knew the implications that the 24 kill timer were but he still drove forward with it in order to help a majority of the guilds on the server.
I had run the numbers on our rotation that we used to have also and the numbers were less than 0.6 kills per week for the folks that didn't have 24 hour availability by the way.

For those folks that think Faceless is guaranteed all of these FFA targets, they are sorely mistaken because now, more than ever with as few targets are FFA, guilds will be competing for these targets and, in the past, guilds like MM and AD have beat Faceless their fair share of times and still have the potential to do so. They are very powerful guilds still and are very capable when they prepare themselves and get their organization and mobilization back to the standard it was at pre-transfers.

For those of you comparing Faceless to TL, look at those numbers and tell me what you think about our rotation and our server now. The only guild that has less kills on this server from this current rotation is Faceless but yet the only people that seem to be ok with the rotation are Faceless and the guilds that wanted 24 hour rotations. Why is that? Do we want Ragefire's rotations or something?

That hurts my brain Solkos.

This is why I leave the heavy lifting to you guys this is way above my pay grade.

this rings pretty hollow since faceless (and to a lesser extent RoI since they merged) ran away from the only other guild ive really seen plant the competition flag, TL. if you wanted competition, why would you run from it?

the whole FFA/competition stuff is full of so much contradiction i have a hard time taking it serious.

the smaller or "casual" guilds that arent interested in competition dont have to be thankful to anyone but DBG at this point since Daybreak has mandated rotations happen. so far for whatever reason, the guilds have seemed to cave to one guild on each servers desire for "competition" when noone really competes against them.

its quite strange really. the number of guilds not interested in competing seem to outnumber those that do, yet we still have FFA.

I asked if they wanted Ragefire's rotation.

Your entire post is anecdotal at best. Remember when DBG mandated a rotation before transfers happened and people still transferred? That isn't an issue with the competition it's an issue with the people. Get off it.

It's not caving when Dima likes to put forth complete and utter nonsense ( why else won't he post the recording/log of the meeting ) and Darth puts forth something that actually works better for everybody.

You are backing the wrong horse on this one bud. I'm just sayin.

Calculations:
Dima's rotation: All guild rotation with 1 FFA day at the end. 3 hour kill timer.
ASSUMPTIONS:
1. 7 Guilds in the rotation and I am just got to assume all will be flagged for Vox/naggy/inny/CT very soon
2. For rotation days the average spawn timer is ~32 hours plus time to kill averaging 2 hours (accounting for failures).
3. 3 guilds (AD/FI/MM) have 24 hour ability to kill. 4 guilds are Prime-time meaning they have about an 8 hour window the mob needs to spawn in for them to kill.

So one full rotation takes an average of
32 (spawn) + 2 (kill) = 34 hours spawn to spawn for each target
(7 guilds + 1 FFA) * 34 = 272 hours per rotation =1.619 weeks/rotation

For the 4 guilds that are Prime time:
4 Spawns (CT INNY VOX NAGGY) / 1.619 weeks / 3 (Only 1/3 of these mobs spawn in prime time) = 0.82355 mobs/week.

For the guilds that have 24 hour avilability:
4 Spawns /1.619 = 2.47 mobs/week

FFA targets (missed target + 1FFA)
4 (FFA)/ 1.619 Weeks + 4 Spawns*4 guilds * 2/3 (missed/failed targets) /1.619 Weeks =9.059 FFA mobs/week



Rotation we chose: 3:1 FFA plus 24 hour kill timers on Rotation
Assumptions:
1. 44 Hours kill to kill on rotation (32 average spawn + 12 average kill) and 33 hours for FFA days.
2. 7 guild in rotation. Assume all are up to vox naggy inny and CT plus all will never fail a rotation target.

A rotation = 7 guilds * 44 + 2.33333 FFA days * 33 = 385 hours = 2.29 weeks/rotation

Rotation kills per week:
4 mobs (CT INNY NAGGY VOX) / 2.29 Weeks = 1.74545 Kills/week

FFA Mobs Per Week:
2.33333 (ave FFA per week) * 4 mobs (CT INNY NAGGY VOX) = 4.076 Mobs/Week

For Comparission here are the numbers on Ragefire.
7 Guilds. 2 of the 6 hour times slots. 4 guilds in both time slots (12 hours) and 3 guilds opt out of one time slot. I am unsure if they have any official FFA days anymore so I will exclude them:
Assumption: 32 hour spawn timer + 1 hour kill timer on average = 33 hours.
Time for a rotation depends on when the mob spawns but here is my shot at it:
4 guilds * 2 (1/2 chance it will spawn in the 12 hour time slot) + 3 guilds * 4 (1/4 chance for them to spawn in the 6 hour time slot) = 20 kills of each mob per full rotation
20 kills/rotation * 33 (average kill-kill) = 660 Hours/rotation = 3.92857 weeks/rotation

Rotation kills:
4 mobs (INNY CT VOX NAGGY) / 3.92857 Weeks/rotation = 1.01818 kills/week

FFA targets:
20 mobs/rotation * 4 mobs (INNY CT VOX NAGGY) = 80 mobs/cycle
80 mobs/cycle / 3.92857 weeks = 20.363636 mobs/week
20.363636 mobs per week - 1.018181818 rotation kills/week = 19.345454 FFA mobs/week

This is like asking your officers to post any logs of any officer chats or meetings they have.

It doesn't happen. If you want to know what was discussed, ask your guild representatives that were in attendance.

The only reason the ragefire ones are posted is because apok lied to DBG in the first place.

faceless ran from competition, yet claims to want it. everything after that rings hollow to me. . faceless is willing to give more scraps than TL maybe, but thats a weak reason to run from the competition you supposedly want.

as for backing the wrong horse, i dont think anyone has actually suggested 12 or 24 hour windows with no FFA, so i dont think i have a horse in the race, so to speak.

theres so much that could be done with rotations, but people jsut want to argue over nonsensical "competition" in a PVE game. you could set up a scoring system for each mob, points for quickest to kill their mob, the lowest numbers to kill, and award the winner on each rotation cycle a bonus kill before the rotation starts again.

as for the nonesense about the recording, im sure there were enough people in the conversation, im not sure why thats necessary anyway. people even put forth their proposals on the open view spreadsheet.

You should stay on your own server's thread. But since you want to butt your head in over here you should realize that the Guild Leader for FI requested that they be posted. The only reason not to post them is to cover something up.

Your guild has said that you could compete if you wanted to. So prove it. The truth is you can't. You don't even mobilize anymore.

If you don't understand that the rotation was announced before transfers and people still chose to transfer and why they chose to transfer then you need to think long and hard or just ask somebody for help explaining it.

You want to make things difficult. There is no need for that. The winner is the one who kills the mob. Simple.

If it's nonsense and nothing is there then talk to your guild leader about posting it. C'mon, what does he have to hide?

it doesnt get any simpler than 24 hours to kill a mob, and the rotation moves on.

all that stuff about pre transfer rotation is not really relevant. faceless, as a guild, rolled on lockjaw to avoid competing with TL. that was pretty obvious the moment it happened. a lot of people transferred over because of the slower unlock pace, myself included(once we get out of classic at least~) and in fact the one guild that might have been able to hit the ground running and compete with faceless...merged with them. more "we want competition" BS.

faceless is far less toxic than TL was, i'll give it that. but i dont buy the "we want competition" nonsense. why would you run from the other flag bearer of competition? faceless has done many of the same shenanigans TL did in the name of "competition" why would you merge with the one guild that transferred from ragefire that was also mildly interested in competition?

and again, there were multiple representatives from many guilds at these talks, what exactly would he be trying to hide? did he pay shush money to the other people in the chat channel to try and change history? the tinfoil runs strong everywhere. there are plenty of people who can confirm anything that was said or wasnt said.

Well there are so many discussions on the rotation because our rotation is developing over time and changing to suit the needs of the masses while also suiting the wants and needs of all of the guilds who have been in the rotation since week 2 of the server.

TL was a small factor in me, personally, coming to Lockjaw the server queues and over-population was the biggest decision makers. I would do it again in a flipping heartbeat knowing the fact that we could have a nice healthy non-toxic raid environment and we had the control and power to enforce the ruleset when it came to raiding. We chose to make that ruleset one that was developed around the health of the server and the enjoyment of those guild that wanted to try the content.

This would have never flown on a server like Ragefire with TL on there and you can see that by the never ending battle they have over there and the word to describe it is all over these forums "TOXIC". So when given the opportunity to move over there for faster Kunark unlock, we opted to stay on our server that is much more friendly with guilds that can work together.

That being said, my own PERSONAL belief is that there should always be a #1, #2, and #3 guild on each Everquest server. It is just how this game was designed. There are always going to be players that play on the game every day for as much time as they can. There are going to be players that play less than that. The group of people that play... say... 12+ hours of a day, on average, have every right to get more raid targets than a group of people that play 1 hour every other day on average.

Yes, everyone pays the same amount of money to play but what about the person who is paying for the game and can only get on for 1 hour a month? They are paying the same amount so why don't they get a cloak of flames?

We ran away?

Ragefire was way over pop, there were queue times at the time. No instances in any zone at the time save newbie areas. We didn't run from TL, we ran to a less populated server. We worked together as a server minus a boxer or two, to get all server firsts.

We set up rotations with guilds before DBG wanted them.

There was no running.

Sooooo many fingers, what was voted was voted. Let's how it goes and if need so make adjusments. Let's stop with all that sexual tension in here already!

Qflexx here btw, im on the road back home, that forum acc was saved on my phone

I wasn't even playing on Lockjaw for the first week or two, so correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you only get the first Naggy and maybe Vox? I thought someone else knocked off CT, Inny, and Phinny.

That is true, and it was a joint effort to get Naggy and Vox.

Because Ragefire was an overcrowded cesspool that many of us couldn't even play on.

Was?