Lockjaw - Modest Man retiring, moving to Phinigel

Hello, Simplicity here.
Firstly, Please don't compare me to Genka who defaulted a monk from sky to himself in a raid without allowing others to roll on it (for his alt when mains needed it in raid), manipulated dkp in the sense that he only cared about updating it when it was convenient to himself, would remove people from raids so that they did not receive dkp because they pissed him off, had a second main in the guild to gain dkp and bid as a main, and still to this day claims to have "other forum accounts and characters". Great Guy. As far as him bidding on Cloak of Flames,

[Fri Oct 23 05:29:46 2015] Taliefer tells the guild, 'Cloak of Flames 10 DKP min go'
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:47 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:47 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:48 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:48 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:49 2015] Awful says, 'INC rez on Flour'
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:50 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:50 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:51 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:51 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:51 2015] Genka tells the guild, '12'
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:51 2015] Dominitus tells the guild, '10'
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:53 2015] You say to your guild, '160'
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:54 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:54 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:54 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:54 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:55 2015] Raiynne begins to cast a spell. <Alacrity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:57 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:57 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:58 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:58 2015] <Hymn of Restoration>
[Fri Oct 23 05:29:59 2015] Punchu tells the guild, 'boom'
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:00 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:00 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:01 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:01 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] You are thirsty.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] You are out of drink.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:04 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:05 2015] Raiynne begins to cast a spell. <Cannibalize>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:06 2015] Glug, glug, glug... Sairai takes a drink from their Summoned: Globe of Water.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:07 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:07 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:08 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:08 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:08 2015] Glug, glug, glug... Sairai takes a drink from their Summoned: Globe of Water.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:09 2015] An ice goblin crushes Sorein for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:10 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:10 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:11 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:11 2015] <Hymn of Restoration>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:11 2015] Taliefer tells the guild, 'Cloak of Flames Simplicity 160 once'
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:11 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:12 2015] An ice goblin crushes Sorein for 16 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:13 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 27 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:13 2015] Sorein scores a critical hit! (44)
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:13 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 44 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:14 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:14 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:14 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:14 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:14 2015] An ice goblin hits Sorein for 23 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:15 2015] Taliefer tells the guild, 'Cloak of Flames Simplicity 160 twice'
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:15 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:15 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 18 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:16 2015] An ice goblin hits Sorein for 4 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] An ice goblin crushes Sorein for 33 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] <Elemental Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] An ice goblin bashes Sorein for 1 point of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:17 2015] <Guardian Rhythms>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:19 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:19 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 20 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:19 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:19 2015] An ice goblin hits Sorein for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:19 2015] An ice goblin hits Sorein for 2 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] An ice goblin bashes Sorein for 1 point of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] Lobober hits an ice goblin for 48 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] Lobober bashes an ice goblin for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] Sorein slashes an ice goblin for 31 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] Soon's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:20 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:21 2015] Anthym's song ends.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:21 2015] <Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity>
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:21 2015] An ice goblin sinks into the ground.
[Fri Oct 23 05:30:21 2015] Taliefer tells the guild, 'Cloak of Flames Simplicity 160 sold-grats'

Strong bid war there, a 12 dkp bid. Sorry he couldn't receive it for nothing like his Dagas. I assume you're hiding your identity because I'd probably be able to pull up a bunch of on you - that's fine, I don't mind anonymity. You seem to want to focus on CT, Lets REALLY analyze that situation. A bunch of level 51-54's attempt to take on CT, I travel down and only arrive in the zone when the raid is already half dead and dying, and a second instance is up. I decide I probably don't have the time to wait for relaunch, so i'll just pick over to check golems as Tower was lacking a Ball of Everliving golem, and split. Midnight Pyre was clearing from the topleft of zone, so it was easy to outmaneuver to get Fright and Dread, while they got Terror. These golems would have gone to them, not to you or MM. No ball, slime blood dropped. I openly was talking about it to Jaluden/Dima in mumble - Why would I not? What did I do wrong? Nothing. I can't sell tradeable loot from one group npc's now? No one contacted me about the blood, only Sunfuz(druid) offered to buy it for 5 Krono in guildchat after he saw us auctioning it. You guys attempted zero communication, and instead got all riled up and .

I'm not sure what else you've decided to anonymously gripe about after the fact, and without attempting resolution at the time of incident, but please feel free to comment back and we can discuss what I've missed clarifying for you.

Clear chat, take it to tells please.

Certain items were not rolled on at all, and the forum system appeared intentionally deceptive. Multiple people reported alts selling Sky Multiquests (lol M Q gets filtered out), being offered raid items for Krono, etc etc etc. Everyone has their own story, people I trust have stories I believe. My only story is honestly that you wouldn't allow rolling on spells at all, even with DKP. Being I was decked in only the most ostentatious and unnecessary gear in classic all I really needed after a few basic pieces was spells, and so my personal issue was that you took them all and we never heard about them. Sources say all the various officers boxes got all those spells come Kunark. I'm not trying to bad mouth MM as I don't really care. They were well organized, relatively successful during the rotation and I have friends in MM. This is simply my opinion.

WHERE DID THE SPELLS GO? I am on the edge of my seat!

If this happened, it happened before the ragefire transfers opened. I kept very detailed logs of all items looted since becoming an officer of MM, and everything that could be bid on, was. I'd honestly be disappointed if this were true.

There were things that couldn't be bid on, and there were other shady situations with DKP, logs, bidding, "secret mains" etc. Just sayin'. I stopped raiding with them for this reason.

i stopped looting the spells once it became apparent they all dropped pretty commonly and just opened them to free grab. i posted an output file of my spell mule on the forums and shipped out the spells people requested. wasnt an officer only thing. not many people took the time to post what they needed, so spellbankone(most creative name on the server imo) is still sitting with a ton of spells occupying inventory.

most of the loot concerns it appears people have could have been easily answered if they had taken the time to send a tell, or make a post, or with better communication from myself apparently. thought i was doing a good job on that, apparently not.

i can assure you i have RMTd nothing, and have looted multiple rare sky items that are still in my bank, waiting for the other pieces to drop. not sure how i can prove that to you, but trust me, i wish my bank wasnt full of sky items. that zones loot method is a pain in the backside

Honestly, Its a game and you all need to get over it.

Just leave it be, let them do their thing and root for em.

Lot easier to just drop it, move on and do you own thing rather then mess with stuff beyond your control.

Its pixels, 1's and 0's and learning to work with people as well as having good communication. Some people can't seem to do that while others do it well. In the end its about having fun and enjoying the game.

if you dont mind shoot me a PM with some of these situations. if you dont want to i understand, but im tryin to learn from mistakes that were apparently made

Or, more relevant to this discussion: The best indication of future success is past success.

Recent history shows MM launching war on FI and greatly contributing to the demise of the rotation on Lockjaw. Although vowing a revolution and to overthrow the dreaded FI on Lockjaw, MM was never able to sufficiently mount any sort of real threat to FI and is now tucking tail and running away from the server amidst excessive internal drama as witnessed in this thread.

Of course MM doesn't want to talk about their successes(or lack thereof) on Lockjaw(which they "never really tried on") but instead wish to focus on their master achievements on Fippy which only took place post PoP when their main rival had 75% of their raid force quit. If you consider that success, then by all means join MM and I'm sure they'll be top post PoP again...... unless they quit servers again like they did on Lockjaw.......

I'm not saying that people don't go out of their way to hate on MM but some of that is reaping what Dima/Gulfein and his crew have sow'd over the years. That being said people do change in life and deserve an opportunity to do so. A new server is a great way to learn from past mistakes on previous servers and get things right. Unfortunately to really change you need to embrace the mistakes you have made and gain understanding and insight into the role you have played in those situations. Unfortunately in today's society 99% of the time people are looking for others to blame for their own situations and not looking to what they can do about it or how to respond better in the future.

You talk alot of about fippy. Please, tell me more about scripted shadowknights and bots making it pay2win for TL? Please, tell me more about GM's giving favor to TL throughout velious, even evicting Citizen from NToV one night? It's favoritism even rivaled what P99 has dealt with. Would you also happen to have a link where TL officers and a mass of members were caught on fraps using /zone through Firiona Vie? Thraka, current GL of TL, was one of them. Please, enlighten me on how much account sharing there was, because Drillisen personally sent me a tell asking for my info to my cleric for botting purposes, and didn't like that I responded asking for his if he has mine.

I'm not defending Genka's actions on what he did or didn't do. Neither dima nor the officers talked about what he did. Why are we going in circles with this CoF again? Fact, he bidded on previous CoF for 200 and lost roll. Fact, he passed the bid because you bidded and didn't know you had rogue haste belt. Had he bid 200 and tried to retract his bid to pass to you it would've failed because ALL BIDS ARE FINAL. Now why did you bid against Dom as well? Oh its because you're a lootwh*re and are only out for yourself and not the guild as a whole. Cheap Dagas, you mean like the one Tower got for dirt cheap as well? The same one where Tower was messaging EVERY WARRIOR IN THE GUILD not to let it go to 200 and to pass it to him?

My problem is that you guys tried to taint his name while he was still in the guild, I'm not surprised since you guys like to forum war your own members. Its just funny that of all the people that knew about it, was mabbu. Dima must've fed him all the info even though he's not an officer.

Since you're going to bring dima into this, lets have some fun.

So dima logs into our raid channel and proceeds to tell us that a slime dropped.

Me : *pretends to ask dima* "So did midnight phyre get the slime?"
Dima : Dodges the question.

Next day in mumble
Me : "So its ok for your officer Tower to snipe a golem and to sell loot when necros in the guild needed it for their epics?"
Dima : "Honestly I don't know who got it MP or Tower"

It really shows what kind of leader you have right there. Flat out lying and defending the shady actions of their officers. Fact was, you knew the necros in the guild needed the slime. There was a post on the forums with YOU replying that you didn't know if there was any extra. Go ahead and ask your fearless leader who I am.


Oh please Taliefer, you kept all the spells and said that you would distribute it before Kunark launched, which you never did. What's even more funny was when there was an argument in guildchatter between Tower, Pocket, Mebonk, Zueggy and Tower said he'll give spells out to guildies. Next thing you know he's in auction channel selling all the spells.

All the spells people asked for, they got. Still have a slew of en on spellbankone. I'd be more than happy to show them to you in trade window in oggok if you don't believe me. There is no grand loot conspiracy, just poor communication apparently, by both sides of the argument

I'll try to take this in the order that you wrote them. Even minus the haste, CoF is, statwise, the best cloak for rogues in classic. Undebatable. Whatever reasons he chooses to bid, or not to bid, are his. If someone wants something, they should bid. Your buddy sunfuz bid 200dkp on a White Dragonscale Cloak against a Wizard. People are welcome to spend their dkp as they see fit. Why did I bid against Dominitus you ask? My counter question for you be, why would Dom want a cloak of flames when he already picked up the Cloak of Scales from Innoruuk on 9/19/2015? His focus should have been RBB/Sky belt - and he was also welcome to bid higher than mine as well. Tower's Dagas was won at 42dkp, because the only other bidding warrior was under 40% 30-day Raid Attendance, not sure what Tower has to do with this conversation. In the future of this conversation, I ask that you please state relevant subjects to what we are discussing. The only "tainting" of Genka while he was guilded that I could even think of, and I wouldn't even consider it "tainting" is that people were frustrated because he refused to even post his DKP logs to the forums to let someone else take the time to upload it. When he's playing the game hours a day, and the 5 minutes it takes to upload a textfile attachment isn't getting done, people will get frustrated. Again, not sure why you think Mabbu is relevant to our discussion, so I'm going to avoid commenting about him or Dima.

For your second part, Tower didn't "snipe" anything. I "legitimately killed" the golems before MP did. For emphasis, you would not have got the golems anyway. I'm going to avoid more of your talk of Dima in order to stay on topic - The post on the forums was asking if the guild bank had any. No, I do not believe the guild bank did. We here at Modest Man, as I'm sure you know as I believe you were a member but insist on sending me on a goosechase instead of just saying who you are (lack of common courtesy? I certainly introduced myself), do not take loot individuals acquire on their own, in a group setting, or in an unofficial raiding capacity. I'm sorry - but that would not be right or fair. It's why I didn't pull Eye of Innoruuk's for any epics from Wizards that looted their items in Non-Official raiding. I understand you are frustrated at not acquiring your epic piece, but I feel I must ask - Why would you not just send me a tell? Instead of building frustration and eventually leave after reaping loads of drama, I would've easily worked something out with you. The ONLY message was from Sunfuz in /guild, and I didn't even take him seriously as one, he said it in guild, and two, I'm not aware of Sunfuz having a necromancer alt.

I encourage that for future issues with guild members, whether in our guild on Phinigel or any other that you join, you actually work to resolve the issue instead of just looking for a reason to get pissed off. Most people are quite easy to work with, all it takes is communication. When your anger subsides, all it takes is an apology and you are more than welcome to re-apply, depending on who you are I'd probably endorse your app myself.

IMO, let people bid and bid, don't cap. But that's just me. Let the fools spend away and then they have no one to blame but themselves and the guy bidding against them.

But, for us that are considering joining Citizen/MM for Phinny, could you briefly explain your loot system? I can't believe Machen will be a part of anything shady. And I'm not sure anyone else was either.

Our current loot system is DKP based with a cap. So basically in Classic EQ the DKP cap to bid on an item is 200dkp, and after that it's decided by a loot council as to who gets it. This is usually based on Raid Attendance, performance, and how needed the gear is.

If player A, B, and C bid 200dkp on an item, officers will look at the 3 above mentioned values to determine who gets the loot. There have been times in the past that if there are a few people with very close RA they have done certain /randoms to make things fun.

If you would like to read more about how our system works, you can find full details listed here http://www.modestman.club/forum/announcements.php?aid=1

Thanks

The short version is that it's a DKP system 99% of time. However, once the bid amount of DKP reaches a certain amount (It's quite a high amount) it goes to officer discretion.

It isn't really a loot council as such most of the time. As Dima mentioned elsewhere recently, one time when we had 3 warriors at 200 DKP for a dagas all with very similar raid attendance, and so they had the warriors sit on top of Sister spawn. Whoever got deathtouched when sister spawned won the roll effectively.

Another time they had people (again, very similar RA members) do a /random based on their RA, and top roll won. The only thing I can think of in classic that was purely officer decision was the first few white dragonscale cloaks, and those basically went to very high raid attendance Wizards and Mages.

However, its' not very often items reach the limit. Most of the officer decisions are done in pretty unbiased ways, and so personally, I've got no problems with it at all. I suppose if you're a druid with dreams of an ID3 cloak in the first 4 weeks of classic it may not be to your taste, but I think it's a pretty good system overall. It prevents a lot of potential abuses that come out of 100% capitalistic DKP systems, and discourages hoarding to a degree (gotta save all my DKP or that damn druid is gonna take my dragonscale cloak!).

Thanks, that sounds fair.

I am tempted to rejoin MM for Phinegel.

Here is my perspective on my time in MM and why I left.

I never had a problem with any members, never had a problem with loot systems or people selling loot, I would have gladly paid for a slime blood because I have notoriously bad luck killing the golems. It took me years to get one on live, it wasn't looking good on LJ either. 10% drop rate is way lower than that since a slime blood dropping off a golem is independent from last time it dropped i.e. it could drop once out of every 10 kills or it could drop once every 100 kills like seems to be my luck, but I digress.

On LJ the 6 month time frame was too long for classic. By the time I quit I was logging in less and less and only to raid and I already had near best in slot so I knew I was not going to bid on any loot outside of a BCG.

The reason I left is simple. I disagree with way leadership treats certain things. No need to hash that out here.

All I ask is that leadership is not apathetic and that you treat people with high raid attendance and high skill with more respect that is all. I am not saying worship ground we walk on, but several times people like Alastor, myself, and others try to explain some things and we get met with resistance. If I don't know what I am talking about then I want someone to prove me wrong, it has yet to happen. In fact, I was giving advice to Fippy necros on Mumble that they didn't think of.

All I am saying is there is reason MM went from being top skilled guild killing toughest bosses with least members to failing on other guild's sloppy seconds. Apathy at the top leads to good people quitting. I seen several in this thread alone.